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Joe Johnson a Top Priority?

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West Remy

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Here is an interesting post taken from the Insider's Forum:

Kenny Roda of WKNR interviewed a Phoenix sports writer today and talked about the joe Johnson situation. The Phoenix guy basicall said that with the need to resign Stoudamire and other issues the Suns would be unlikely to match a top offer for Johnson even though he is a restricted free agent and they would theoretically be able to match. They agreed that Johnson would be a top priority for the Cavs-Roda said the top priority for the Cavs as a shooting guard-because he would be somewhat cheaper than Michael Redd and could play defense as well as play the 1,2,and 3 holes-unlike redd, who might be able to play teh 3 hole some along with the 2 hole but not the PG slot.

I understand Redd may still be atop Cleveland's list but with the Bucks winning the lottery, Redd's situation is more clouded than before. In Johnson's case, the new agreements of the NBA may make it harder for Phoenix to match Johnson.

Cleveland needs to be aggressive and throw a contract at Johnson as soon as possible. Maybe even front-load the contract to discourage matching it.
 
This is just a revolving door. One week it is Redd, the next Allen, and now its back on Joe Johnson. Johnson's flexibilty is a masssive plus. I am not overly sold that he is a 2nd goto guy, but mixed with LeBron and hopefully Ilgauskas, that wont be totally neccessary.
 
I think Joe Johnson can be a solid #2. Last year around the All-Star break, Johnson had a stretch of averaging around 20 or more ppg on a good percentage. On this current Phoenix team, he's more of a background character content playing his role.
 
hell yeah, if we can't get hughes get me "J SQUARED"

i want outside shooting as much as the next guy, but this guy can give you outside shooting, just not as well as ray and mike. however neither of those guys can play the defense joe plays.. AND I'LL TAKE A SOLID DEFENDER ANYDAY.

i don't know what kind of player L. JAX will be... but if he's as gifted offensivley that many said he was, then the wing positions are tied down.

also when the cavs play lebron at the point at times, i can already see that lineup of BRON, JOE, AND JAX out there.. :thumbup:
 
Joe Johnson has always been my top FA choice but his restricted status makes him a big risk.
This latest reports sounds good but previous stories had the Suns matching any offer and doing everything to keep Johnson. Their salary situation with all the big contracts and having to sign Stoudamire does provide somewhat of a shot at Johnson but the Suns owner is one of the young new NBA owners and looks to be willing to spend big bucks.

I do think Johnson would be a great addition for the Cavs and is the most versatile of the top FA SG's that have been discussed.
 
The real Joe Johnson.....

Hi Cav fans. :)

I'm a longtime Razorback fan and love to watch the Suns. I've been lurking the Cav forums because of the interest in Joe Johnson.

I haven't seen this forum before. But since it is the only Cavs-only forum I have found, I'd like to say a few things about JJ.

I've noticed on the other forums that there is alot of misconceptions regarding JJ and his RFA situation. I guess since the Suns haven't been on TV much there isn't much to go on except heresay and boxscores. So I'd like to give my opinions.

I want JJ to stay with the Suns, but that seems unlikely if Redd is staying in MIL. So if he leaves I hope it is to the Cavs, because I think he would fit like a glove.

The Sun's owner, Robert Sarver, has stated many times that he intends to turn a profit (he is one of the "poorest" NBA owners). With 3 All-Stars already making (or will make as with Amaré) $10 million+ per year, that likely can't be done if another team offered him a huge contract-despite the Sun's brass saying they consider re-signing him a top priority. They haven't taken the hard stance of saying they will match any offer, as seems to be the perception.

Anyway, here's my take on JJ:

He didn't seem to fit O'Brien's system in Boston (how many teams are going to get screwed by that coach and his unbendable system, anyway?) and they traded him and a 2nd round pick for Tony Delk and Rodney Rodgers. In the Suns' system, he struggled playing with Marbury, sometimes being used only when perimeter defense was needed. But if you watched the games it was easy to figure out why: Marbury would dribble around, then dribble some more, then either took a shot or passed it to a teamate to take a shot with the shotclock winding down. Since JJ isn't a catch-and-release shooter, he struggled to get a good shot off too often. Couple that with the fact that he shared minutes with Penny Hardaway, he never got into a groove. He is a pure shooter, so he needed minutes to get into sync. The proof to this is that directly after Marbury and Hardaway were traded, he got his minutes for the 1st time in his pro career-and played like an All-Star.

Check out the boxscores from last year. As the Sun's primary scoring option (Amare was out until the very end of the year-so it ws JJ, Marion, Lampe, Barbosa, and Voskul-some lineup, huh?) he put up around 22/5/5 & ~50% FG for the remainder of the year. Or until Amare returned, which seem to throw everything off.

And check out his numbers in the games from this year when Nash was out. Everybody elses' numbers declined, while his improved. He isn't as dependant to Nash as people think.

He has played PG sporadically throughout his career, but the most has been the past 25 games or so. It worked great for the Suns, since he was able to hold or increase leads. That's something Barbosa was struggling with all year.

He has been a whopping 53% 3pt shooter the past 29 games. I don't understand when people try to qualify his 3pt % by saying he is set up by Nash. Does anybody think Hoiberg, Kerr, or Paxson shot many contested 3's?

He shoots 70% from the corners. So does Hoiberg (although far fewer)-its a shorter distance to the basket.

He is very fluid and gets open seemingly when he wants. His runner in the lane is the best in the NBA, hands down. Nobody his size comes close.

His listed height of 6'7" is off. He grew an inch his rookie year. Check him out when he stands next to Stoudemire (who is 6'8"½ without shoes). His weight of 230 is definately off. He is quite a bit bigger than his rookie season. He is easily 240. That is one big PG/SG/SF.

His defense is either underrated or overrated, depending on who is doing the rating. He has incredible stamina that allows him to chase his man all game long. And at his size and athleticism, that makes him a very good defender. But he hasn't learned all the tricks the great defenders know. He just takes pride in defending and working on both ends. He sometimes has trouble shedding screens. Someday he will be a great defender,IMO.

He never misses practice and will never, ever be a cancer. He just doesn't have the makeup to demand the ball or a leadership role.

He is painfully shy off-court. When he was a sophomore at Arkansas a reporter once asked him if the rumors that he was going pro were true. He excused himself by saying he would be right back, then got in his car and drove to Little Rock to ask his mom how to deal with those situations. He's gotten much better with the media since then, but he is still a bit nervous on-camera.

Despite his shyness, he is very confident on-court. It has been a life-long sanctuary for him. He even engages in trash talking to the man he is defending at times, although he'll never get that reputation.

I don't know why he is called the 4th scoring option on his team. Plays are run for Amaré 1st and JJ 2nd. No plays are run for Marion and Nash is pass-first. So I don't know where that comes from (unless people are thinking 3 all-stars make him the fourth option)

And he never hogs the ball or shoots too much. He enjoys making the extra pass and is constantly improving his game. He just seems like the ideal running mate for LeBron.

Well that's all I can think of. :)
 
Re: The real Joe Johnson.....

Great post. What you said is why I always wanted JJ over Allen or Redd. While it seems like the Suns may not keep Johnson, you still never know. The worst case scenario would be if Cleveland offered a deal, the Suns waited the maximum and then decided to match. In that scenario, Cleveland may have missed other free agents because they were gambling on Johnson, only to come out empty-handed.
 
Re: The real Joe Johnson.....

See, I think we have a good chance to land JJ now that this Spurs series is going as it is. Yes, JJ, is an integral piece to their team. But, like Hogfan said, the Suns want to make a profit and logging up this much money in such few players would be business suicide. I think they'll go the route of letting JJ go and picking up some role players, possibly in a sign-and-trade type deal. Either way, the Cavs should try to be first in line for this opportunity.

The 14 day wait period is hard to swallow, but Redd seems destined to remain in Milwaukee with his max deal.. think about it, he's almost at his prime, or about to come into it: he still has 10 years to join a contender, probably 4-5 years down the road where he'll still have skill (a la Ray Allen).

Hughes is staying in Washington.

Simmons.. is alright. He's not the pure shooter we need.

Ray Allen remains the only realistic option out there besides JJ. But to get Ray, we tie him up for 5 years and a ton of money, essentially losing Z and killing the middle. It's a decision we would have to make. It seems that Allen might want to bolt, but Seattle seems like a good spot for Ray Ray, seeing that the negotiations are close. Once the new CBA comes out, only time will tell.
 
Re: The real Joe Johnson.....

West Remy said:
Great post. What you said is why I always wanted JJ over Allen or Redd. While it seems like the Suns may not keep Johnson, you still never know. The worst case scenario would be if Cleveland offered a deal, the Suns waited the maximum and then decided to match. In that scenario, Cleveland may have missed other free agents because they were gambling on Johnson, only to come out empty-handed.
There is definately a chance of getting stiffed by the Suns' management in an RFA situation.

One thing I've wondered is if it is truly smart to freeze out a quality player in his RFA year. It has been done before, but the chance of alienating that player by manipulating the market has got to rub players the wrong way. I don't know why that is never brought up but it has to be a reality. I would be furious if that happened to me. And Joe has handled his FA year like a pro should. Both Redd and Allen have discussed openly what they may or may not demand or want. But Joe has said nothing of the sort. He never has demanded the ball more and accepted a spot role on a team that doesn't showcase his half-court game (except in the playoffs, where his half-court skills became vital). I think that is admirable and he has recieved compliments from his teamates for that. Marion and Stoudemire have been complaining about either touches (Marion) or playing position (Amaré) for the past couple of months, But the person you would think would complain (Joe), isn't.

All he has stated to the media is that he wants to stay and that "they said they will take care of me, we'll see" he hasn't mentioned what "take care of me" means, but he was clearly hurt when they refused to accept an offer that was only slightly better than Richardson"s.

I really haven't seen Redd play, so I can't compare him to JJ.

Allen would be a great fit if he signed. By coming to the Cavs he would have to understand that he is going to be second fiddle to James. So I think the act of signing with Cleveland should end that concern, IMO. His age and defense are knocks agianst him compared to JJ, but he is still a stud.

And I would stay away from Hughes. Allen has always been great, JJ and Redd have been improving every year, but Hughes has had great stats in a contract years after floundering for years. With Allen and JJ (and maybe Redd still) on the market, I don't see why he should be mentioned with them. I only saw him in the playoffs but I thought his defense was terrible. He got his steals but got burned trying to get them. #1 in steals is an almost sure sign that a player is not a consistent man defender. Another Dampier, IMO.

The thought of JJ and James dropping down to the 1-2 positions in the middle of a game should be very enticing. It would give the Cav's possibly the largest backcourt in the history of the NBA. Thats one heck of a curveball to throw at someone.

And by getting JJ they will stay away from having to find a passing PG. I think passing PG's will be overpriced next year thanks to the rule changes and the Suns, Nuggets, and Washington showing how to take advantage of the changes. They are already like the mythical running big man. Everybody with access to a message board always says thinks like, "next year we need to get a cheap running big that can rebound an shoot a little", but they couldn't name such a player if given all day to think about it. Now it seem the "pass-first" PG has fallen into that category. With a passing 2&3 the Cavs can go for an Hoiberg/Kerr-type setup man.
 
Re: The real Joe Johnson.....

Great posts Hog. You summed up why JJ would be a great fit here very well. A lot of people talk about the need for us to bring in a pippen-like side kick to play next to LeBron. Johnson could be that. He's like a young poor-man's pippen, big, versatile, good playmaking abilities, good shooter, good defender, nice scoring ability, etc. He's just a great all around player that will only get better as he grows older. He's been my first choice to come here to cleveland. His RFA status is the only thing I dont like about pursuing him.
 
Re: The real Joe Johnson.....

It's great to see other fans join the board and put their insights on their own players. Thank you for the Joe Johnson info.

The backcourt of James and Johnson does sound intereting, it would cause great machup concerns for the opposing defense, but wouldn't do the same for ours?

I haven't seen JJ play much at all, how is his defense while defending smaller guards? I know LeBron has a heck of a time guarding smaller players and it would be a shame to see other teams beat our big guards off the dribble on each posession, it has happend so many times with JMac and I don't want to deal with watching that for another season.
 
Re: The real Joe Johnson.....

Infante said:
It's great to see other fans join the board and put their insights on their own players. Thank you for the Joe Johnson info.

The backcourt of James and Johnson does sound intereting, it would cause great machup concerns for the opposing defense, but wouldn't do the same for ours?

I haven't seen JJ play much at all, how is his defense while defending smaller guards? I know LeBron has a heck of a time guarding smaller players and it would be a shame to see other teams beat our big guards off the dribble on each posession, it has happend so many times with JMac and I don't want to deal with watching that for another season.
JJ played great defense during the regular season against the very quick Tony Parker. Last night he was clearly winded and got burned by Parker regularly. But he has excellent lateral quickness and hopefully he will display that tommorrow.

The one thing I was concerned with is him being tentative after that terrible fall. But I was impressed with his aggressiveness, even though he was clearly out of rhythm and breath. But normally he guards smaller players very well. Normally he does a great job of staying in front of his man. If Snow was more of an outside threat he would be great alongside the combo of JJ/James, considering he is a good defender. But the Cavs would definately still need a true PG starting, as JJ is a natural 2 with the versatility to play the 1 & 3.

But I can't think of a team that has had the combination of two large guards who excel at pretty much everything (as James will certainly develop his defensive game and outside touch). So I really can't envision what that would look like.

I just can't see it not working.:)

And thanks for the compliments. :) I want LeBron to get his Pippen. I know how you guys must feel. As a Razorback fan we have a similar situation here. Ronnie Brewer is an amazing college guard that can play four different positions at the Div. I level. But opposing teams simply employ a box-in-one defense on him and all his ball handling and passing skills become negated when nobody else on the team can score. :(
 
Re: The real Joe Johnson.....

Thanks for the insight HogFan. We do have a lot of Joe Johnson fans here. He's always been my #1 choice for the Cavs of all the top available FA's. He's the most versatile of all the FA SG's available. The Cavs would still need help at PG but would be a nightmare for opponents to defend with the versatile games of Lebron and Johnson on the wing and an upgrade at PG.

My only concern with going after Johnson was his restricted FA status. I always have thought this made him more of a risk because the Cavs could tie up 15 days during the FA period waiting for the Suns to match or not and then possibly lose out on other FA's and even lose out on Johnson if the Suns matched.

I was glad to read your insight into the Suns situation. I am hopeful that their salary situation and need to resign Amare to a huge contract causes them to not match an offer to Johnson. I have read where the Suns will match offers but there are differing reports out there.
 
Re: The real Joe Johnson.....

I was under the impression that they were saying that they would match any offer as well. But for the past couple of months Bryan Colangelo's answer to that question has been "re-signing Joe is our #1 concern in the offseason". So they may have made that statement earlier. But they have shied away from such rhetoric for the last part of the season, even though I've read reports by sportswriters attributing that statement to them. I'm sure Colangelo enjoys the perception. But he hasn't said that from anything I've heard. And I've got "joe Johnson" and a few other Razorbacks linked to Google News bookmarked and I check them almost ever day-and have for a year and a half. Sportswriters don't check facts, and I suspect Colangelo appreciates that.

They have been very careful not to pressure Joe lately. If they come out with the stance that they will match any offer just to get his services cheaper, they run the risk of having a disgruntled player. They were willing to let JJ sit out the rest of the playoffs, even though there was no danger to his face once the mask was fitted. The doctors gave him a 100% health bill. He even took the time to get a 2nd opinion on that from an outside doctor. I see that as kid-glove treatment for a team making a push for a title. Clearly JJ has leverage. I bet the concept of scaring away other bidders is a dead one. I don't see players and their agents falling for that anymore, not when the player is a high profile one. The market value of a player is set by the highest bidder. Saying that they will match any offer is akin to taking million of dollars away from them.

So if they were saying that then they have backed off a bit. Sarver can't afford to lose money on his team like other owners have. They just barely turned a profit this year for the first time in 3 years. They gained $8 million dollars in local endorsements and had quite a few sellouts. But even after a 31-4 start they didn't start selling out until much later in the year. Considering that a home playoff game generates a little over $1 million for the owner, they would need to pack the arena year-round and go deep into the playoffs each year. And Phoenix fans rarely sellout. Re-signing JJ and Amaré makes turning a profit all but impossible from my view. Sarver would have to find other investors.

Marion's contract ballons to over $17 million in a couple of years, and Amare fired his agent because his max is pretty much guaranteed. So Sarver is going to have to scamble to turn any kind of profit.

That doesn't mean they won't match. It just means Sarver will have to change his mind about making money.
 
Re: The real Joe Johnson.....

Great post hogsman, thanks for coming in and sahring your info. I have watched al ot of joe lately and I am very impressed with him. I think if he were to come here he would be an all star. He would have a bit bigger of a role here but also wouldnt be under a ton of pressure because he has LeBron to play with. I think he could put up 20, 5 and 5 with a 46 %fg and say 44% three. His .478 with 177 makes was increddible but i see him taking more threes next season while also being a member of the 200 make club.
 

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