Johnny Manziel: Swan Won't Return His Calls

[Norm]

Re: Johnny Manziel

From the 2014 NFL Draft thread




I see an electric talent that doesn't fit into the traditional pocket-passer mold. I see the Browns having an offensive coordinator well-versed in game planning around a mobile QB. I see an offensive line a single piece away from gelling. I see a receiving corps (especially if we go WR with 1 of the first 3 picks) stocked full of young, talented pass catchers that will give our starting QB multiple viable targets from day one.

Add it up all, and I see Cleveland being a great fit for Johnny Football.

Shanahan had RGIII for 2 years, one of those RGIII was inefficient leading to the #2 pick in the draft (owned by Rams). Yes, RGIII had a phenomenal rookie season when he was healthy and the ability to run was apparent. Year 2 was crap when the threat to run was non-apparent and RGIII was forced to win games from the pocket. That's my beef with Manziel.

I admit, I don't like the possibility of us drafting JFF and I haven't been since we were linked to him with our previous GM. The throws you pointed out in the clip, 2 of them were good, the others were off target and floating on JFF. Manziel does not excel when playing from the pocket. He either throws off his back foot or winds up too much to throw passes, his strength is playing outside the pocket and improvising. Not an ideal QB situation when you are stating we are 1 lineman away from being really good up-front. Wouldn't you want a pocket QB to utilize our O-Line and not rely on improvising? I see a similar situation playing out with Manziel as RGIII. He'll have a good year when healthy and the threat to run is apparent. Once an injury occurs limiting him to pocket, he's going to struggle mightily.

 

[CosmoKramer]

Re: Johnny Manziel

Shanahan had RGIII for 2 years, one of those RGIII was inefficient leading to the #2 pick in the draft (owned by Rams). Yes, RGIII had a phenomenal rookie season when he was healthy and the ability to run was apparent. Year 2 was crap when the threat to run was non-apparent and RGIII was forced to win games from the pocket. That's my beef with Manziel.

I admit, I don't like the possibility of us drafting JFF and I haven't been since we were linked to him with our previous GM. The throws you pointed out in the clip, 2 of them were good, the others were off target and floating on JFF. Manziel does not excel when playing from the pocket. He either throws off his back foot or winds up too much to throw passes, his strength is playing outside the pocket and improvising. Not an ideal QB situation when you are stating we are 1 lineman away from being really good up-front. Wouldn't you want a pocket QB to utilize our O-Line and not rely on improvising? I see a similar situation playing out with Manziel as RGIII. He'll have a good year when healthy and the threat to run is apparent. Once an injury occurs limiting him to pocket, he's going to struggle mightily.

I can't fight the fact he's going to be an injury-prone player. QBs that rarely leave the pocket take a bad enough beating, QBs that consistently look to extend plays with their legs expose themselves to even more hits. Manziel is mostly likely going to be a guy that plays 14 or 15 games a season over his career, but we don't have to look very far to see a successful NFL team built around an injury-prone QB. Ben Roethlisberger's only played two complete 16 game seasons in his ten year career for the Steelers.

Now, Johnny Football is under 6' and close to 210 pounds. Big Ben is 6'5'' and close to 250 pounds, yet he can barely stay healthy playing in the NFL. I don't see Manziel capable of playing like Roethlisberger, who's strong enough to shrug off would-be-tacklers and still fire off passes. I see him resembling a young Mike Vick, using rarely seen elusiveness and acceleration for the position to regularly evade incoming rushers and turn negative situations into improbable gains.

Unlike Vick however, Manziel is already capable of displaying excellent accuracy throwing on the run to both his left and his right. Vick had the much, much stronger arm, but he also was always wildly inaccurate. He finished with a career completion percentage of 56% in both college and the pros, and he only completed over 60% of his passes in one season (that magical run with Philly in '10). Vick only played one complete season in his 11 year career, but he also finished with 15 or more games played in four of the five seasons he went in as the starter for Atlanta.

But to get to the quoted post, it was obvious last year RGIII rushed back from his ACL tear way too soon. Not everyone is AP, that injury usually takes an entire year minimum to heal. I try not to judge Washington's offense too harshly when it was obvious that knee wasn't fully healed. He played banged up his rookie year and still managed to be very effective late in the season. Playing with a still recovering major injury is entirely different. I'm confident RGIII will bounce back this year with more time to recover, he's a dynamic talent that's going to prove his rookie season was no fluke.

Johnny has some bad traits that need coached out; he has happy feet and can bail from the pocket way too early. But I have no doubts he can beat teams from the pocket, even at the next level. He actually lead all QBs from AQ conferences in completion percentage from inside the pocket this year (73%), and he completed at least 65% of his passes from the pocket in every game but one this season (LSU). If that's your beef with Manziel, find a new one. He's proven capable of beating teams from the pocket.

 

[Seiklis]

Re: Johnny Manziel

So Johnny's preparing for the draft in a similar fashion to another Browns draft pick great, Kellen Winslow Jr

[video=youtube;bQtjn6Ub85w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQtjn6Ub85w[/video]

Forget the field, how quickly will he take himself out

 

[polska2211]

Re: Johnny Manziel

So Johnny's preparing for the draft in a similar fashion to another Browns draft pick great, Kellen Winslow Jr

[video=youtube;bQtjn6Ub85w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQtjn6Ub85w[/video]

Forget the field, how quickly will he take himself out

 

[WellYouNeednt]

Re: Johnny Manziel

I hate you Johnny Manziel.

 

[The Oi]

Re: Johnny Manziel

Take him over Tom Savage and his crew of flunkies any day of the week.

 

[MGMT]

Re: Johnny Manziel

Take him over Tom Savage and his crew of flunkies any day of the week.

Derek Carrbage also.

 

[AZ_]

Re: Johnny Manziel

I can't fight the fact he's going to be an injury-prone player. QBs that rarely leave the pocket take a bad enough beating, QBs that consistently look to extend plays with their legs expose themselves to even more hits. Manziel is mostly likely going to be a guy that plays 14 or 15 games a season over his career, but we don't have to look very far to see a successful NFL team built around an injury-prone QB. Ben Roethlisberger's only played two complete 16 game seasons in his ten year career for the Steelers.

Now, Johnny Football is under 6' and close to 210 pounds. Big Ben is 6'5'' and close to 250 pounds, yet he can barely stay healthy playing in the NFL. I don't see Manziel capable of playing like Roethlisberger, who's strong enough to shrug off would-be-tacklers and still fire off passes. I see him resembling a young Mike Vick, using rarely seen elusiveness and acceleration for the position to regularly evade incoming rushers and turn negative situations into improbable gains.

Unlike Vick however, Manziel is already capable of displaying excellent accuracy throwing on the run to both his left and his right. Vick had the much, much stronger arm, but he also was always wildly inaccurate. He finished with a career completion percentage of 56% in both college and the pros, and he only completed over 60% of his passes in one season (that magical run with Philly in '10). Vick only played one complete season in his 11 year career, but he also finished with 15 or more games played in four of the five seasons he went in as the starter for Atlanta.

But to get to the quoted post, it was obvious last year RGIII rushed back from his ACL tear way too soon. Not everyone is AP, that injury usually takes an entire year minimum to heal. I try not to judge Washington's offense too harshly when it was obvious that knee wasn't fully healed. He played banged up his rookie year and still managed to be very effective late in the season. Playing with a still recovering major injury is entirely different. I'm confident RGIII will bounce back this year with more time to recover, he's a dynamic talent that's going to prove his rookie season was no fluke.

Johnny has some bad traits that need coached out; he has happy feet and can bail from the pocket way too early. But I have no doubts he can beat teams from the pocket, even at the next level. He actually lead all QBs from AQ conferences in completion percentage from inside the pocket this year (73%), and he completed at least 65% of his passes from the pocket in every game but one this season (LSU). If that's your beef with Manziel, find a new one. He's proven capable of beating teams from the pocket.

Are we really going to pretend his athleticism rivals that of Michael Vick?

 

[CosmoKramer]

Re: Johnny Manziel

Are we really going to pretend his athleticism rivals that of Michael Vick?

Vick and Manziel were both uniquely elusive and tough to contain in the pocket. Although Vick had a higher top-end speed they both had excellent agility and burst for a quarterback. I'm not the first to think Johnny has some Vick-esque scrambles occasionally.

Manziel doesn't have the raw tools Vick had (arguably the best combination of speed/arm strength in NFL history) but he has a much better football mind running the controls.

 

[Phills14]

Re: Johnny Manziel

Vick and Manziel were both uniquely elusive and tough to contain in the pocket. Although Vick had a higher top-end speed they both had excellent agility and burst for a quarterback. I'm not the first to think Johnny has some Vick-esque scrambles occasionally.

Manziel doesn't have the raw tools Vick had (arguably the best combination of speed/arm strength in NFL history) but he has a much better football mind running the controls.

Vick had elite top end speed while Manziel's top end speed is good but it certainly is not elite. What makes Manziel different is his elusiveness. He's very adept at getting out and away from would-be tacklers using quickness not necessarily out running them.

 

[AZ_]

Re: Johnny Manziel

I'll have no problem admitting his elusiveness is very good, but Vick is just on an entirely different level athletically. Both from a top end speed and elusiveness standpoint.

 

[Soda]

Re: Johnny Manziel

I cannot wait for this to end. Johnny Cleveland or not.

 

[CosmoKramer]

Re: Johnny Manziel

I'll have no problem admitting his elusiveness is very good, but Vick is just on an entirely different level athletically. Both from a top end speed and elusiveness standpoint.

Guess we disagree there. Other than a higher top-end speed, which I've already stated, Manziel is at least comparable to Vick's elite agility and acceleration. He's also much stronger than Vick when running the ball, not shying away from contact and fighting for yards whereas Vick smartly ran out of bounds.

I originally brought up Vick to prove you can build a winning team around an injury-prone QB, and to compare their escapability from the pocket. If we're talking a comparison for their entire games you've already thrown out Jeff Garcia, which is a good comp. I wouldn't mind seeing what a young Jeff Garcia could do with the weapons we're assembling here.

 

[cavfanintexas]

Re: Johnny Manziel

So Johnny's preparing for the draft in a similar fashion to another Browns draft pick great, Kellen Winslow Jr

[video=youtube;bQtjn6Ub85w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQtjn6Ub85w[/video]

Forget the field, how quickly will he take himself out

don't we already have a trick artist QB?

 

[Soda]

Re: Johnny Manziel

don't we already have a trick artist QB?

We do, but how much tail does he pull?