Exactly. Science deals with the observable.
If it has never been observed, yet claimed, it is a theory... Such as the Big Bang THEORY for example. This has never ever been proven to be true. And any man that claims it is proven is really trying to convince their self of something that they know it not true.
But we can observe the effects of the Big Bang and infer it's truth logically.
We just had this conversation, remember? We infer the existence of subatomic particles, we can't see them. We infer the existence of gravity, and we have never seen a graviton. You misunderstand the term "observable." We are observing the effects of a thing to derive it's existence.
For example, if a tree fall in a forest -- remember that? Well, we can infer that when it hit the ground, air was moved, leaves were blown about, the ground shook, and "sound" was made. We haven't seen it for ourselves, and yet, we can infer the it's existence from the logical consequences of the events.
This is fundamental logic and inference is required for reason, it's required for mathematics, science, and simply forming basic understandings about many abstract concepts.
Now, from my point of view, it seems that your argument largely relies on an attempt debase and delegitimize science, even to redefine it, in order to draw (false) equivalence between faith and scientific theory and understanding. I say that because you've insofar avoided everything I've put to you by claiming science itself is somehow useless to the question at hand. Am I wrong here?
None of this is random. Look around. Look. OBSERVE. Where do you see randomness? Anywhere? If you were to be honest, you will see order and structure in existence everywhere...
Actually yes, I see randomness everywhere as well as structure. ALL of the structure you mention comes from the inflationary epoch where random quantum fluctuations created areas of higher and lower densities allowing for non-uniformity. This, in turn, is responsible for ALL structure in existence.
Structure, out of randomness.
Just look at your body. Its safe to say that nothing but randomness put together the extremely complex design of the human anatomy?
Yes, of course; by way of over a billion years of evolution.
Thats just ONE molecule in all of creation. Everything is in order by intelligent design.... Just like your phone, your TV, planes, trains, and automobiles.. everything is designed with great intellect. What makes man any different? Trees? Plants? Oxygen? Everything needs each other, yet, this is all a bunch of randomness? You are kidding nobody but yourself if you say you believe this.
Why is anything you've said actually true?
I can demonstrate to you, logically, scientifically, and mathematically the truth of my statements. What do you have to back up your claims? I'm asking you for evidence.
Have you even considered the argument that I've put to you? How has anything you've just said actually contradict the points I've made about the origin of the universe?
Lets look the simplicity of a seed.. It is so small and plain to sight.. but it is everything but....
A simple seed... if you plant it, give it water, oxygen, and over time, it grows and gives shelter to animals, man, it gives food, oxygen, paper, etc etc etc... and that seed of that tree comes from itself to multiply just as God commanded it to do.
I don't take the same meaning out of this that you do... Can you explain what you mean dispassionately?
"And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good." (Genesis 1:11-12)
Amen.
This means nothing to me in the context of this conversation. Understand that I put absolutely no value whatsoever in these words when it comes to scientific understanding.
Therefore, my faith rests peacefully with an almighty, all-knowing, and all powerful God KNOWING the truth of the matters that men seek day and night to know, yet remain in darkness.
Because Jesus Christ is the light of the world and I am now found in Him, I too, will walk in light knowing the truth just as He is the truth, Amen.
That's great, but you haven't actually addressed anything I've said.
I've asked you to provide me some evidence. I'm offering you tons of evidence, and have more to offer still. I can explain what you think is magic, as simple consequences of the fundamental laws of nature. We can evaluate this logically, and rationally, or you can recite verses from the Bible and talk at me, rather than with me, and we can get nowhere.
You asked for a discussion; you laid out the rules; I'm asking you to keep to the point about "discussing" and "debating" this... That's fair right?