Minor League Week 4 games (5/25 - 5/30/21)

[mopete12]

Contact guys who use all fields can take advantage of shifts.

If you want proof, look at the present production within our own prospects, comparing those with hit tools vs those with power tools.

There has been a significant increase in emphasis on things like spin rates, and at the same time a increase in use of foreign substances. On the other hand, a huge increase in launch angles and pull side power.

Not to mention shifts.

All this has led to a huge loss in overall offense, and the attendant pointing of fingers at pitchers doctoring the ball and calls to eliminate intelligent defensive alignments.

And year after year, as things get worse, Michael Brantley keeps on laughing...keeps getting on base, keeps hitting to all fields, keeps batting .300 with .800 OPS,...launch angle doesn't very, contact rate doesn't very, and does it with almost zero power.

I love using an elite hitter and saying everyone should be like him. That’s like me saying everyone should focus on increased launch angles and pull side power because Jose Ramirez has become one of the best players in baseball by doing that (he’s a much more valuable hitter than Brantley). Sounds easy.

Until the contact oriented prospects do anything in the major leagues, how can you use them as an example of success?

 

[thestatman]

Get rid of the shift and the offensive game would return.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

.

 

[CDAV45]

a month ago, CATS woulda had Owen Miller in that group of minor league contact hitters....then he came to the bigs.....

I would have had him in that group as well, and still do actually. Instantaneous success doesn't happen very often, but I think Owen will right the ship and be a spark to this lineup.

 

[macbdog]

I love using an elite hitter and saying everyone should be like him. That’s like me saying everyone should focus on increased launch angles and pull side power because Jose Ramirez has become one of the best players in baseball by doing that (he’s a much more valuable hitter than Brantley). Sounds easy.

Until the contact oriented prospects do anything in the major leagues, how can you use them as an example of success?

Michael Brantley developed into that elite hitter, he sure as hell wasn't born one. He worked to be what he is. I think hes a fantastic comp, honestly, for any hitter with good natural bat to ball skills to what you can be if you don't want to try and be Adam Dunn Jr.

 

[CATS44]

First, Brantley was not considered an elite hitter early on, because he had no power.

But what he did have, was a solid foundation that his dad gave him by teaching him a short swing with little movement and high contact.

As for Ramirez, Jose had much the same foundation...high contact, short swing, few Ks...and no power.

Both are perfect examples of how to beat the current trends in pitching...draft and sign kids who have the proper foundation..a superior hit tool...and build from there.

And, yes, although he is not in a prospect pack with kids like Freeman and Rocchio, Miller is better founded than big swingers, like Brantley, Zimmer, and Jones.

50 at bats doesn't prove anything, nor 500. But when you have a loooong track record of not being able to hit a baseball, its time to move on.

 

[CDAV45]

Contact guys who use all fields can take advantage of shifts.

If you want proof, look at the present production within our own prospects, comparing those with hit tools vs those with power tools.

There has been a significant increase in emphasis on things like spin rates, and at the same time a increase in use of foreign substances. On the other hand, a huge increase in launch angles and pull side power.

Not to mention shifts.

All this has led to a huge loss in overall offense, and the attendant pointing of fingers at pitchers doctoring the ball and calls to eliminate intelligent defensive alignments.

And year after year, as things get worse, Michael Brantley keeps on laughing...keeps getting on base, keeps hitting to all fields, keeps batting .300 with .800 OPS,...launch angle doesn't very, contact rate doesn't very, and does it with almost zero power.

What proof are you referring to? The power guys(JRam and Reyes) are the lion's share of our offense.

Launch angles are a result of the shift. I'd like to see the shift controlled more than it currently is. I'm not sure what that means, but it's gone too far IMO.

Something needs to be done about doctoring baseballs if it is as bad as it appears. I have a feeling someone will be made an example and the crazy SOB at the backend of our BP might be that guy.

I know you like to use Michael as an example because he's such a good hitter, but hitters like him are rare birds CATS. He's got a gift that very few ever possess. He's the modern day Tony Gwynn. This is speculation on my part, but a guy like Brantley gets pitched to more because the threat of leaving the yard is less. Take a team like the 2019 Twins. They could absolutely mash baseballs and a pitcher couldn't make a mistake anywhere in the lineup without the threat of it leaving the yard. So which offense is more effective? One like the Twins or one with several Brantley's in it?

 

[CATS44]

Everything evolves in baseball.

Kris Bryant pretty much began the launch angle revolution. Pitchers began beating him with heat up in the zone, as they are beating just about everybody that way.

Now Bryant has abandoned his revolutionary approach. Goodby launch angle, hello barrel percentage, high hard hit rate, and production. His BA and SLG are both the highest of his career.

Wanna bet that other batters have noticed?

 

[CATS44]

What proof are you referring to? The power guys(JRam and Reyes) are the lion's share of our offense.

Launch angles are a result of the shift. I'd like to see the shift controlled more than it currently is. I'm not sure what that means, but it's gone too far IMO.

Something needs to be done about doctoring baseballs if it is as bad as it appears. I have a feeling someone will be made an example and the crazy SOB at the backend of our BP might be that guy.

I know you like to use Michael as an example because he's such a good hitter, but hitters like him are rare birds CATS. He's got a gift that very few ever possess. He's the modern day Tony Gwynn. This is speculation on my part, but a guy like Brantley gets pitched to more because the threat of leaving the yard is less. Take a team like the 2019 Twins. They could absolutely mash baseballs and a pitcher couldn't make a mistake anywhere in the lineup without the threat of it leaving the yard. So which offense is more effective? One like the Twins or one with several Brantley's in it?

The 2019 Twins were an aberration, resting on unsustainable short term results. Since then the Bomba Squad has been an average offense.

But go ahead, keep wishing and hoping that all our 30% K prospects turn into productive MLB players.

I will...and so have the Indians...bet on the hit tool, high contact kids.

 

[xmasbuck]

I love using an elite hitter and saying everyone should be like him. That’s like me saying everyone should focus on increased launch angles and pull side power because Jose Ramirez has become one of the best players in baseball by doing that (he’s a much more valuable hitter than Brantley). Sounds easy.

Until the contact oriented prospects do anything in the major leagues, how can you use them as an example of success?

ditto - may of our posters probably wouldnt get the old steve martin line about how to become a millionaire - - first get a million dollars....

the issue here isnt how to develop hitters - it isnt whether or not to extend guys - the issue is now several years of this front office whiffing on position players - the best players on this year's team that we have signed and brought through our system are chang and zimmer - seriously!

 

[xmasbuck]

Brantley has 100 home runs in 13 seasons - thats hardly what made him an elite hitter

 

[CDAV45]

The 2019 Twins were an aberration, resting on unsustainable short term results. Since then the Bomba Squad has been an average offense.

But go ahead, keep wishing and hoping that all our 30% K prospects turn into productive MLB players.

I will...and so have the Indians...bet on the hit tool, high contact kids.

Michael Brantley is an aberration of sorts too CATS. Every year the top offenses are also at the top of the league in the power categories as well.

I am "wishing and hoping that all our 30% K prospects turn into productive MLB players", and you should be as well if you're a Cleveland Indians fan. Realistically most of those types won't make it at the highest level. Guess what, neither will the "hit tool, high contact kids".

I feel like your making an argument out of something that doesn't exist. Nobody here likes any Cleveland prospect to K at a 30% clip. However, if they can take a walk and get to their power consistently/frequently then they can become productive hitters as well. I think you're trying to use a cookie cutter approach and that isn't very successful in many aspects in life, including hitting. You act like there is a plethora of little JRams out there just waiting to be told whatever it is that you think JRam was told. That's not how it works and having the hand/eye coordination to have a "hit tool, high contact" profile may be more rare than having the power to hit for extra bases.

 

[CDAV45]

Michael Brantley developed into that elite hitter, he sure as hell wasn't born one. He worked to be what he is. I think hes a fantastic comp, honestly, for any hitter with good natural bat to ball skills to what you can be if you don't want to try and be Adam Dunn Jr.

Michael Brantley developed into that elite hitter because he has a skill that few are blessed with. You're not going to develop a bunch of Michael Brantley's because that's what you want to do. You can't squeeze blood out of a turnip.

I find your comp funny/ironic. Michael Brantley's career OPS+ is 117. Adam Dunn's career OPS+ is 124. Most of us would take Brantley everyday of the week and twice on Sunday over Dunn. The point is that there is value in power if a hitter can get to it. It may be the most valuable of hitting commodities if used frequently, but that in itself would require some bat to ball skills. Ultimately pining for one and disregarding the other doesn't seem like a good strategy to me.

 

[thestatman]

I would have had him in that group as well, and still do actually. Instantaneous success doesn't happen very often, but I think Owen will right the ship and be a spark to this lineup.

I hope you're right but from what I've seen not so sure. Maybe the time off will help him. If he continues to struggle, have to send him down. Tribe can't afford another black hole with the stick.

Also, with Zimmer showing some unexpected life and who has provided a spark. I'm not so sure sending him back when Luplow returns is a smart thing to do.

 

[CDAV45]

I hope you're right but from what I've seen not so sure. Maybe the time off will help him. If he continues to struggle, have to send him down. Tribe can't afford another black hole with the stick.

Also, with Zimmer showing some unexpected life and who has provided a spark. I'm not so sure sending him back when Luplow returns is a smart thing to do.

I actually don't disagree at all with this stat. There's nothing wrong with a good prospect struggling upon his 1st call up the returning to get back in order. It probably happens more often than not.