(No Longer) Joe Woods’ Defense

[adam81king]

There's a difference between "playing scared" and scheming to defend a running quarterback.

Pass rush wasn't a problem against Mahomes, the problem was Mahomes blowing past the rusher. I'm not saying everything went perfectly against the Texans, but containing a rushing QB seemed to be the emphasis. Tyrod rushed once, then Mills was overall ineffective.

Woods can certainly look into different techniques besides switching up the zone against Fields this week, but the point should still be to prevent a running QB from picking up easy first down after easy first down with his legs.

Not sure why folks don't want to see this. If we do what folks are clamoring for against Baltimore, he's gonna have 300+yds rushing and a half dozen TDs.

 

[Kbiz]

I just worry if we come out with the same rush 4, soft zone coverage against Fields, he will be able to nickel and dime that down the field all day. Best way to confuse a rookie is to disguise coverages and blitzes. This feels like a game where Woods could pull out some new wrinkles, assuming he's capable.

If we are having the same conversation next Monday, I'll be pretty annoyed.

 

[DJTJ]

Zero snaps for Greedy? Yikes.

 

[Ohio]

Not sure why folks don't want to see this. If we do what folks are clamoring for against Baltimore, he's gonna have 300+yds rushing and a half dozen TDs.

Baltimore is one team. We don't have to defend every single team the same way we do the Chiefs or Ravens; nor should we. That's coaching malpractice.

Yesterday's defensive gameplan was inexcusable. The Texans were unstoppable with Tyrod yesterday. Even with a horrible QB in the 2nd half they managed to go on a 16 play, 8 minute TD drive. It's just unacceptable.

There needs to be way more variety in the defensive calls. More man, more blitzing. Sitting in soft zone 95% of the time is just stupid against any team, most especially one like the Texans.

Players need to execute better for sure, but they aren't being put in a position to succeed at all right now.

 

[ZooCrewDude]

I think it’s fair to have watched the Texans game and voice concern over the direction of our scheme. I also think it’s prudent to give the defense time to gel and get its legs underneath it… my unease stems from the fact that before last year we didn’t have much of a resume of defensive play calling from Woods to feel safe in understanding what his identity is as a play caller wants to be. Before this season he had this to say:

… that’s not exactly what I observed yesterday. Which can only lead me to believe that what we’re watching defensively is what we saw last year with the offense: the training wheels are all the way on in the early season. We’re playing safe defensively by keeping the game in front of the defense and allowing the more established offense to dictate the outcome and control the clock with the ground game. Let the offense win, and don’t let the defense lose.

I’m okay with this as long as by the end of the season we start to see what Joe’s identity is for this defense and that by the playoffs they’re firing on all cylinders. If what we saw yesterday is the end state of the scheme and simply improved ‘execution’ is all we can expect, then I’ll be disappointed and I think this team’s ceiling will be hindered.

There’s too much talent at the ends of our line to not eventually get more aggressive in how we game plan. It doesn’t need to be immediate, but I’ll be looking for hints of what we want to grow up and be as the season progresses.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

I'm not sure the problem is aggressiveness, to be honest. Sure, I think the scheme looks way too passive, but I think it's way too easy for a QB to diagnose. Looking at the game, how many times did either QB, Tyrod or Mills, have to go past their first read to find a guy wide open? There is no deception in the defense, it's just ultra vanilla and basic.

The scheme works, we've seen this exact scheme work for different teams. But if you're going to show the opponent QB exactly what type of coverage you are in before every play with no late movement or change post snap? Every NFL QB is going to smoke you.

The excuse last year was that Woods had to coach this way because the team had no talent. There is no more excuses this year, and he's running out of reasons to get away with it anymore.

 

[TopGun]

So this past weekend Cincinnati limited the Chicago offense to 13 points and under 250 yards, despite having to unexpectedly face a rookie QB for a half. They limited the 'running' QB to 31 yards on 10 carries. Having a whole week to prepare to face either Fields or Foles, is anyone confident we will come anywhere close to matching the Bengals' performance against the Bears?

 

[Vee-Rex]

There's a difference between "playing scared" and scheming to defend a running quarterback.

Pass rush wasn't a problem against Mahomes, the problem was Mahomes blowing past the rusher. I'm not saying everything went perfectly against the Texans, but containing a rushing QB seemed to be the emphasis. Tyrod rushed once, then Mills was overall ineffective.

Woods can certainly look into different techniques besides switching up the zone against Fields this week, but the point should still be to prevent a running QB from picking up easy first down after easy first down with his legs.

I don't think the problem is necessarily the initial scheme. However, sometimes no matter how well prepared you are, those guys will overcome your gameplan.

The problem is the lack of adjusting, and the lack of creativity. We saw Mahomes killing Baltimore (who btw, were running zone, man, and everything in between) last night, but that didn't stop Wink from being flexible enough to keep the Chiefs guessing. I've never seen the Ravens play as conservative as they did last night, and even still it was far more aggressive than I've ever seen Woods on our defense.

Pass rush WAS a problem against Mahomes for both the Browns and the Ravens, yet the Ravens were smart enough to get exotic with their coverages and blitzing. I feel like people look at high "pressure stats" and just assume things will get better without factoring in how opponents plan to subvert that pressure with pocket maneuverability. Mahomes was stepping up into the pocket on the Ravens just as he did all game against us, except they adjusted and sent delayed blitzers which forced some errant throws, one of which led to Mahomes 1st interception in the month of September.

Here's an excerpt from an NFL analyst:

The Browns' biggest weakness is still at the second level of their defense. Cleveland allowed Houston to convert seven of 13 third-down attempts largely because they repeatedly failed to tackle the ball carrier in the open field. Defensive coordinator Joe Woods also has some explaining to do, directing a largely vanilla defense that didn't show any significant creativity until a key sequence late in which he sent Grant Delpit on a blitz (resulting in the Browns' lone sack of the day) and then dialed up a well-timed stunt on the defensive line, leading to a quarterback pressure that produced an incompletion. The Browns weren't able to get too aggressive last season because of personnel deficiencies; That's no longer a valid excuse, and they need to be better going forward.

It's not just angry fans being angry, this is a pattern people are recognizing with our mostly bland, vanilla defense. If we're seeing it you better be damn sure opposing NFL teams are seeing it too. Maybe we're being hard on Woods and he's standing out only because he's surrounded by better coaches all around the team, but at SOME point if things don't get better then there will have to be some accountability. Berry can't just throw away precious resources at improving the defense if it doesn't actually improves.

It's only week 2, but it seems most complaints aren't about the points scored against, moreso the patterns we're continuing to see.

 

[Vee-Rex]

I'm not sure the problem is aggressiveness, to be honest. Sure, I think the scheme looks way too passive, but I think it's way too easy for a QB to diagnose. Looking at the game, how many times did either QB, Tyrod or Mills, have to go past their first read to find a guy wide open? There is no deception in the defense, it's just ultra vanilla and basic.

The scheme works, we've seen this exact scheme work for different teams. But if you're going to show the opponent QB exactly what type of coverage you are in before every play with no late movement or change post snap? Every NFL QB is going to smoke you.

The excuse last year was that Woods had to coach this way because the team had no talent. There is no more excuses this year, and he's running out of reasons to get away with it anymore.

This is very well put. Just thought I'd add in what I said during week 1, in that I thought Tyrod would have a good game passing the ball due to how simple the defense is:

Our defense was so predictable (hardly any disguises) that it essentially facilitates perfect play by KC's offense. Getting up and down the field was pretty easy for them all game. Even if Gillan got off the punt, they probably come down and score easily anyway.

I think everyone is happy with the moral victory, but let's see your faces when Tyrod Taylor is completing pass after pass against our soft zone next week.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I don't think the problem is necessarily the initial scheme. However, sometimes no matter how well prepared you are, those guys will overcome your gameplan.

The problem is the lack of adjusting, and the lack of creativity. We saw Mahomes killing Baltimore (who btw, were running zone, man, and everything in between) last night, but that didn't stop Wink from being flexible enough to keep the Chiefs guessing. I've never seen the Ravens play as conservative as they did last night, and even still it was far more aggressive than I've ever seen Woods on our defense.

Pass rush WAS a problem against Mahomes for both the Browns and the Ravens, yet the Ravens were smart enough to get exotic with their coverages and blitzing. I feel like people look at high "pressure stats" and just assume things will get better without factoring in how opponents plan to subvert that pressure with pocket maneuverability. Mahomes was stepping up into the pocket on the Ravens just as he did all game against us, except they adjusted and sent delayed blitzers which forced some errant throws, one of which led to Mahomes 1st interception in the month of September.

Here's an excerpt from an NFL analyst:

The Browns' biggest weakness is still at the second level of their defense. Cleveland allowed Houston to convert seven of 13 third-down attempts largely because they repeatedly failed to tackle the ball carrier in the open field. Defensive coordinator Joe Woods also has some explaining to do, directing a largely vanilla defense that didn't show any significant creativity until a key sequence late in which he sent Grant Delpit on a blitz (resulting in the Browns' lone sack of the day) and then dialed up a well-timed stunt on the defensive line, leading to a quarterback pressure that produced an incompletion. The Browns weren't able to get too aggressive last season because of personnel deficiencies; That's no longer a valid excuse, and they need to be better going forward.

It's not just angry fans being angry, this is a pattern people are recognizing with our mostly bland, vanilla defense. If we're seeing it you better be damn sure opposing NFL teams are seeing it too. Maybe we're being hard on Woods and he's standing out only because he's surrounded by better coaches all around the team, but at SOME point if things don't get better then there will have to be some accountability. Berry can't just throw away precious resources at improving the defense if it doesn't actually improves.

It's only week 2, but it seems most complaints aren't about the points scored against, moreso the patterns we're continuing to see.

I'm not sure Nick Shook, who penned that paragraph, is elevated much beyond "angry fans."

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

I'm not sure Nick Shook, who penned that paragraph, is elevated much beyond "angry fans."

But it's pretty clear. The QBs are figuring out where to go and instantly have that guy open. I would be shocked if Tyrod held the ball longer than like 2.4 seconds yesterday. Even Mills, a rookie, was able to figure it out from pre to post snap.

The scheme is fine, it works and has worked for many different guys over different organizations for years. But this is almost college level simplicity at the moment. Which maybe they have to do with the amount of rookies/new guys they have on the defense. But this is almost a year and a half of this, and Woods hasn't got many excuses left. I expect it to get better, but if it doesn't then it's time to find a new voice/schemer.

 

[Coyote850]

As soon as that rookie QB came in we shoulda been blitzing damn near every play. Rattle him into making mistakes. Safety blitz, corner blitz........God knows Ward played like shit, so why not use him to blitz and shake things up?

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

But it's pretty clear. The QBs are figuring out where to go and instantly have that guy open. I would be shocked if Tyrod held the ball longer than like 2.4 seconds yesterday. Even Mills, a rookie, was able to figure it out from pre to post snap.

The scheme is fine, it works and has worked for many different guys over different organizations for years. But this is almost college level simplicity at the moment. Which maybe they have to do with the amount of rookies/new guys they have on the defense. But this is almost a year and a half of this, and Woods hasn't got many excuses left. I expect it to get better, but if it doesn't then it's time to find a new voice/schemer.

Oh, I have problems with our defense. I will never be on board with having Denzel Ward and not letting him play press man coverage. I want to see Newsome doing the same more often than not as well.

I'd love to see some split-half defenses against uneven offenses. You have trips on one side with a single receiver on the other? Let's see Ward playing man on the single receiver and let the other side of the defense play zone to avoid the man-beater concepts that often come out of trips.

My post was made because I don't think an appeal to authority referencing Nick Shook is the best way to frame the argument.

 

[Lee]

On the Delpit sack, looks like Takkarist McKinley drops back into zone coverage--

Great call, so we only rushed 4 on that play. Man, we need to rush more than that sometimes, rushing only 4 on every play wont get it done in this league.

 

[Vee-Rex]

Oh, I have problems with our defense. I will never be on board with having Denzel Ward and not letting him play press man coverage. I want to see Newsome doing the same more often than not as well.

I'd love to see some split-half defenses against uneven offenses. You have trips on one side with a single receiver on the other? Let's see Ward playing man on the single receiver and let the other side of the defense play zone to avoid the man-beater concepts that often come out of trips.

My post was made because I don't think an appeal to authority referencing Nick Shook is the best way to frame the argument.

It was less of an authoritative appeal and more like, "Hey, others are seeing the exact same thing."