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Ochai Agbaji: 70 days a Cavalier

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How is Ochai going to do?

  • He's an all-star SG

    Votes: 8 5.4%
  • A quality starter for years with a solid skill set

    Votes: 36 24.5%
  • That 3 & D guy in the rotation that every team values

    Votes: 69 46.9%
  • Hangs around the league for a while but is on min salary in 4 years

    Votes: 23 15.6%
  • Has a few good games, but never earns his rookie salary

    Votes: 4 2.7%
  • Total bust

    Votes: 7 4.8%

  • Total voters
    147
  • Poll closed .
Caris LeVert has an 8'5 standing reach. We talked often about JBB's reluctance to play him at the 3 after both Marrkanen and Wade were injured.


Lamar Stevens also has a less than ideal 8'5 standing reach. Lends me to believe Och could play some SF just because of attrition at some point.

 
This board has a lot of good talent evaluators. Be it the new school analytics guys, or the old school eye test guys.

Take myself, I was all in on Oladipo in 2013 and Embiid in 2014. Pretty good assessment, a triple and a grand slam. I wanted Drummond over Waiters in 2013, I would call that a double. I’ve got a pretty damn good track record. I think there were better options at 14.
Can you list your misses? :chuckle:
 

"Upperclassmen 3-and-D players may be overdrafted. That’s not to say that drafting Corey Kispert or Cameron Johnson in the lottery is a bad idea. But for every solid wing that gets taken top-20, there’s a guy just as impactful at his role who didn’t even sniff the top-30, like Max Strus, Duncan Robinson, Wesley Matthews, Danny Green, Garrison Matthews or Gary Trent Jr.

Agbaji may be a low-risk prospect because he’s older and has clearly-projectable strengths that everyone can clearly see how to win with. But the risk with a guy like Agbaji comes in the opportunity cost; taking a guy of his position and mold instead of an archetype that is more challenging to fill with a value pick or undrafted free agent.

Part of the reason Agbaji, in particular, is the guy directly linked to our indictment on drafting 3-and-D players extremely high is because there are clear limitations to his game at the next level that box in his ceiling in an off-ball role. Agbaji has real trouble scoring off the bounce. His drives to the rim are done with a surprising lack of athleticism, his pull-up jumper seems disjointed from his base to his release, his deceleration near non-existent, and his runner and touch suffering greatly as a result.

Most of the lottery or mid-first round prospects who deliver value where they were taken are either elite movement shooters (it’s debatable if Agbaji can become that) or have developed an ancillary offensive game. Desmond Bane got the one-dribble pull-up. Saddiq Bey has great footwork, finishing and mid-post ability. Kevin Huerter is tremendous off handoffs and as a sturdy secondary creator.

Every time we try to project what Agbaji’s additional role can and will be, we come up short. The ball handling is severely lacking, both in control and creativity. The functional athleticism when driving to the rim, high turnover rate for his role at Kansas and rudimentary passing acumen are all strikes against Agbaji developing into a more diverse offensive threat.

Don’t get me wrong, there’s a great deal of value in finding a 45% shooter from the corners who isn’t a negative on the defensive end. Plenty of NBA veterans carved out their careers that way. But for such a niche role, I’m not sure how valuable it is in the lottery."


"Agbaji is a fascinating prospect, one who genuinely took a great leap this year by getting great at his best skills. He has a case as the best shooter off the catch in this draft. His numbers are terrific out of spot-ups, he has NBA range, and all the indicators in terms of his shooting from 3 are strong when he’s set. But how often will he get a chance to do that in the NBA? Agbaji’s long-term ceiling all comes down to him being able to add something inside the 3-point line. He has to be able to counter heavy closeouts with the ball; otherwise, the rest of his game falls apart a bit on offense. Whether it’s as a passer, as a finisher or as a relocation pull-up shooter, Agbaji needs to be able to make something happen. The good news? The combination of 3-point spacing off the catch and his quite-good on-ball defense at least gives him a reasonable floor of being a reliable rotational wing. But he needs to grow to exceed that and be a starter."

Both of these takes are very fair and address the concerns with Agbaji... Agbaji is talented, has a beneficial skillset but is that skillset worth the 14th pick in this draft?

Ultimately, his success comes down to what else he can add to his game to make him more than just a spot-shooter who offers some resistance in man-to-man defense...

The box and one assessment is same reasons why I wasn't a fan of taking Agbaji. It's just the other skills that he lacks. I think with the type of player he is, either his 3pt shooting translates immediately or he just looks completely terrible until it does. Having Okoro who has a similar body type will hold JBB from just playing Agbaji just to play him. If his 3pt shooting doesn't translate immediately, I think we will see him struggle to get minutes just like Danny Green and Joe Harris did in their time with the Cavs.
 
This board has a lot of good talent evaluators. Be it the new school analytics guys, or the old school eye test guys.

Take myself, I was all in on Oladipo in 2013 and Embiid in 2014. Pretty good assessment, a triple and a grand slam. I wanted Drummond over Waiters in 2013, I would call that a double. I’ve got a pretty damn good track record. I think there were better options at 14.
I think you should try to get a job as an NBA scout. Sounds like you are eminently qualified.
 
All I got from this is Banchero has a massive melon head.
Good observation.

In fact, Banchero went straight into my Biggest NBA Heads Top 3:

1. Wendell Carter (Magic)
2. Domantas Sabonis (Kings)
3. Paolo Banchero (Magic)

That's scary. When you have two guys on the same team who both have several small moons orbiting their heads, you're just asking for trouble. NASA needs to look into this.
 
Can you list your misses? :chuckle:

Not just that. But one of his hits was Drummond over Waiters. Is that suppose to be impressive everyone but the Cavaliers had Drummond higher then Waiters.
 
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Not just that. But one of his hits was Drummond over Waiters. Is that suppose to be impressive everyone but the Cavaliers had Drummond higher then Waiters.
I had Lebron at #1, where’s my fucking cookie?
 
Can you list your misses? :chuckle:

Sure plenty of misses. Is Okoro a miss? I was happy with that choice. I would have liked DeAndre Hunter or Reddish over Garland, though I didn’t have access to the DG private workout where he apparently killed it. I wanted a wing. Plenty of NFL QB misses too, though I was a big Mahomes guy. His Gruden camp won me over.

I’m not saying Ochai won’t be a solid pro. I just thought there were better options, or we could have traded down and still gotten him. Now I will say, maybe he showed something in his private workout. I don’t have that access. What’s done is done, we have had our say and now we hope for the best
 
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Not just that. But one of his hits was Drummond over Waiters. Is that suppose to be impressive everyone but the Cavaliers had Drummond higher then Waiters.
Drummond also sucks and has become a burden to every team he's played on.
 
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Drummond also sucks and has become a burden to every team he's played on.

That is fine. Young Drummond was an all star and would have been much better then Dion Waiters.
 
Sure plenty of misses. Is Okoro a miss? I was happy with that choice. I would have liked DeAndre Hunter or Reddish over Garland, though I didn’t have access to the DG private workout where he apparently killed it. I wanted a wing. Plenty of NFL QB misses too, though I was a big Mahomes guy. His Gruden camp won me over.

I’m not saying Ochai won’t be a solid pro. I just thought there were better options, or we could have traded down and still gotten him. Now I will say, maybe he showed something in his private workout. I don’t have that access. What’s done is done, we have had our say and now we hope for the best
Did you have access to any of the other players’ workouts, interviews, and film cut-ups? The ones you consider hits?

Because I’m guessing not, and you can’t use not having Garland’s workout as a reason for missing on him. This is why we’re fans and they get paid to make the best informed decision. Now, not all do it correctly or apply it correctly, but they have way more information than we could ever dream of.
 
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Standing reach can be a tough measurement to incorporate into a player profile because has a high variance. Measurement can change by up to 2” from day to day.
 
That is fine. Young Drummond was an all star and would have been much better then Dion Waiters.
He's always been the same player, was always the guy we saw for half a year on the Cavs. Waiters was flipped for JR Smith, Shumpert and a 1st (EDIT: which became Mozgov)!
 
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