Our LAST Z Debate

[Glen Infante]

Props to MYoung from the scout board for finding this info.

With free agency beginning July 1, Thomas has targeted three centers — the Cavaliers' Zydrunas Ilgauskas, the Bulls' Eddie Curry and the Wizards' Kwame Brown. Cleveland's management situation is muddled and the Cavs have insulted Ilgauskas by not making him a significant contract extension offer. Curry has an irregular heartbeat issue that may scare Chicago into offering him a long-term deal. And Washington suspended Brown during the playoffs, so it's hard to see him wanting to come back.

http://www.sltrib.com/sports/ci_2823417

Assuming Shaquille O'Neal does not opt out of his $30 million contract with Miami, Cleveland's Zydrunas Ilgauskas is the No. 1 free agent among centers.
He is unrestricted and will likely be renounced by the cap-conscious Cavs, who might try to re-sign him at a price that would help them pursue some free-agent help in the backcourt.
It's an interesting plan: team LeBron James with Ilgauskas and Redd - or Allen - and Cleveland could quickly move into a contending position in the Eastern Conference. Ilgauskas earned $14.6 million last season, and he isn't keen on taking much of a pay cut. In April, the Cavs offered him a three- or four-year deal that would have averaged about $10 million annually, but Ilgauskas turned it down.

http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/48980.htm

 

[Marty Mar]

To add to that, I heard on the radio that Z still wants that max deal...

 

[Cleveland56]

Thomas has targeted three centers — the Cavaliers' Zydrunas Ilgauskas, the Bulls' Eddie Curry and the Wizards' Kwame Brown

The Knicks can only offer the MLE to any of these players - not enough. And I would think a sign and trade with the Knicks would be silly because their roster sucks.

And I can't argue about z anymore, if the Cavaliers offer him any more than $7-8 million a year, they are dumb! Let's just wait it out and see what happens. And if its true that Z was insulted for a 3/4 year contract worth $10 million per - then fuk him!

 

[Pioneer10]

No one is going to be giving Z the deal he wants but the Cavs can offer a good deal. I think it's very likely that Z will be back especially with the guys management have brought in. Brown says he wants to work with him and Ferry is very good friends with him

 

[highplainsdrifter]

Dalembert! Dalembert! Dalembert!

He is my choice to be the next Cavaliers center! Z is a great player, but he has tapped his potential, and who knows if he'll stay healthy. And he doesn't want a pay cut! He's not athletic, and I think the offense stagnates with him too much. We must run with LeBron! No one is better in the open court.

Dalembert in 5 games against Detroit averaged 38 min, led all players with 12.8 Reb, 11.6PPG, and shot 55%....against Big Ben! He is 6'11'', 250 and only 24. One of the best rebounders and shot blockers in the league. He's athletic and work ethic is not an issue. He didn't have great numbers in the season because OBrien wouldn't play him, he averaged 25 min.

Too many people think LeBron will be leaving Cleveland. but I'm thinking long term and multiple championships! He has strong roots in Akron and people under value this. Z is not in the plans long term, and Dalembert still can improve, esp on offense. He's a defensive center with upside and a great running mate for LeBron. He doesn't need to score a lot, LeBron and our new stud SG will handle most of that.

Only thing is he's a restricted FA, so Philly can match, but we must make him an offer!

 

[PIP]

i find it hilarious that "THE KING" didn't refer to "Z" at all....

and i don't believe it's any of that : "OH he probably thought he was already coming back stuff"

maybe LeBRON seen the light????? i know early in the year he was all for it- when we 7-8-9 games over .500 but when we started to lose, and alot of that was shined on "Z" and his lack of "D" and analyist pointing out about his rotations and how it cost us against

KNICKS (biggest one of them all - mo taylor- jamal crawford)

NETS (kidd/best- cliff robinson 3 consecutive plays)

RAPTORS (lebron's 56 game- jalen rose/rafer alston- DONYELL MARSHALL, can't blame J-MAC on that one like alot of you want to do.. that was coaches last game, and he refused to play jeff that game) yet "Z" was still fouling and very late on his rotations...

i understand J-mac's lack of staying in front of his opponents did hurt "Z" - but some of you need to wake up...

you will see when the season starts, and if the LITUANIAN FRANKENSTEIN is still holding down the C position for us, our D will be the same..

z and drew cannot play on the same frontline any longer....

i found it funny, when ANDERSON hurt his ankle and TRACTOR and drew played out there at times together, we were pretty good defensivley up front- yet drew was still in the game ? but when z and tractor played together we weren't nearly as good ? again makes you wonder

i can pass on 17pts 5rpg (8 RPG, but we all know he tips at least 3 of his own miises per game) and 0 DEFENSE--- for the ones who disagree, THAT'S OKAY--- "I STILL LOVE MY FELLOW CAVALIER LOVING BROTHERS)

 

[cavincali]

pippen--no disrespect but we discussed the problem with the defense last year immensely. the problem was j-mac getting beat off the dribble every position and who was there to collect the fouls??? Z. he defense isnt a problem, nor his rebounding. we all feel that j-mac was the problem.

to add to that drew sucked majorly with the defensive rotation, big time. so if you want to complain about defense on the front line complain about drew not understanding the system.

 

[TheAdmin]

pippen--no disrespect but we discussed the problem with the defense last year immensely. the problem was j-mac getting beat off the dribble every position and who was there to collect the fouls??? Z. he defense isnt a problem, nor his rebounding. we all feel that j-mac was the problem.

to add to that drew sucked majorly with the defensive rotation, big time. so if you want to complain about defense on the front line complain about drew not understanding the system.

Well count me on the side that feels Z was lacking just as much as Gooden and McInnis on defensive rotations. Sure JMac got whipped and Gooden glossed over the fact that he needed to be somewhere else on the court but Z was often slow to rotate, usually just throwing an arm up in the air well after the ball was on the way to the rim.

Yes he understands where he needs to be in the defensive sets but his body wouldn't allow him to be there on time. Any center would have been caught unprepared for JMac's player just blowing by him but any halfway mobile center could have recovered 50% of the time. Z just didnt' have it in him to recover at all.

 

[Fundamentals]

Terry Pluto had a column a few weeks ago, I think, on the Z situation. He made a point which I completely agree with, Zydrunas Ilgauskas is the same as Brad Daugherty. A good player who the fans of Cleveland ride non-stop and will miss greatly when he leaves. I don't think people realize how rare it is to have a true center anymore in the NBA. A lot of teams have height, but it is height in the mold of DeSagana Diop. I would like to see Z back, but if they don't they MUST make an impact at the center position. I would love to see Dalembert, but it will take a lot of work to get him here with a lot of teams looking at him and his being a restricted free agent and all.

 

[PIP]

pippen--no disrespect but we discussed the problem with the defense last year immensely. the problem was j-mac getting beat off the dribble every position and who was there to collect the fouls??? Z. he defense isnt a problem, nor his rebounding. we all feel that j-mac was the problem.

to add to that drew sucked majorly with the defensive rotation, big time. so if you want to complain about defense on the front line complain about drew not understanding the system.

not disrerespected at all-- i'm just telling you what i seen thru my eyes, i seen the same thing during 97-98 season (especially when we played the pacers in the playoffs, RIK SMITS carved him up on the fouls)...

i seen it during the beginning of the 00-01 season when, they had gatling, traylor, and harpring on that line... the team was playing pretty well (except defensivley in the middle)

i seen it during the 01-02 / 02-03/ 03-04/ and 04/05 seasons......i mean it's simple-- NO DEFENSE FROM THE CENTER ? NO CHAMPIONSHIP .... PERIOD...................

see, if you remember when we first got J-MAC--there was nothing but praise about his "ON THE BALL DEFENSE" it was only until he F'd-UP his shoulder that's when his "D" was non exsistent... we still had the same problem with "Z" and his lack of defensive skills when J-MAC was PLAYING "d"... add to that DREW wasn't here, now i know boozer is not all that great on the defensive side-- but there seems to be a common denominator from all these seasons...........

you can't argue about his offensive game, (ALTHOUGH, i don't need him only posting up during the first 5 minutes of quater #1 and then shootin 17 footers the rest of the game)

BUT to come to his "DEFENSE" about his "DEFENSE" is ridiculous BRO'

he gets very lucky that there is not that many offensivley skilled centers--otherwise he would be screwed and would have 4 fouls at halftime every game....

the guy above hit it right on the head, perhaps he knows what needs to be done in his mind-- but his body won't allow it......

even when healthy ? we've done nothing with him------

 

[E-Light]

He made a point which I completely agree with, Zydrunas Ilgauskas is the same as Brad Daugherty.

It's a similar situation. As brad daugthery aged, his skills started to slowly deteriorate. He was never a great shot blocker, and towards the end of his career his shot blocking became even worse. His passing was unquestionably some of the best in the league, but his scoring dropped, and people saw his age showing, and people bashed him, and thought it was a good idea the brad daughtery era was coming to a close. The funny thing is, now-a-days every cav fan will tell you how great daugthery was, they realized after watching that garbage at center after daughtery left how important he really was.

 

[Pioneer10]

For all the complaints of Z defense Z +/- when he was on the court minus his +/- off the court was huge. If he was such a defensive liability this shouldn't have been the case. Compare this to Jmac who we actually did better when he was off the floor.

Z is not perfect but he is a freakin All-star center whose team performed much better when he was on the floor. Dalembert didn't even start for the 76ers and on top of that he is a restricted FA who the 76ers will likely match.d

 

[cavincali]

well i did some research.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbablocks&sort=blks&season=2005&seasontype=2

this is the league leaders is blocks last season. he was # 8, yet he sucks at defense.

i know blocks are not everything but they are a whole lot when you are protecting the lane. the only guy that is close to Z's poor athletic ability is Joe przybilla, all the rest are defensive players only or younger players.

i dont know exaclty but Z didnt play all the years you listed buddy. of course you are not going to get any defense from a player when he isnt in uniform.

to "refresh" your memory silas benched Z until he started to play "D". then he was a force in the middle and he played in the fourth quater. Z wasnt the only player on the front court gettting into fould trouble.

 

[King]

Z is one of the things that seperates us from most other teams. Hes a true all star center and that is very valuable. He draws a lot of attention, which opens up opportunities for other players to score. He's responsible for not only his 17+ppg, but also many of his teammates' points because of all the attention he he takes away from them. His D isnt great, but hes a shot blocking machine. His D would look a lot less lousy is our perimeter D was better.

I still think were gonna resign Z. No team is going to offer him a max deal unless they want to screw themselves over. I'd give him about 11mil a year max. I dont think many teams will be willing to offer him much more than that.

 

[PIP]

well i did some research.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbablocks&sort=blks&season=2005&seasontype=2

this is the league leaders is blocks last season. he was # 8, yet he sucks at defense.

i know blocks are not everything but they are a whole lot when you are protecting the lane. the only guy that is close to Z's poor athletic ability is Joe przybilla, all the rest are defensive players only or younger players.

i dont know exaclty but Z didnt play all the years you listed buddy. of course you are not going to get any defense from a player when he isnt in uniform.

to "refresh" your memory silas benched Z until he started to play "D". then he was a force in the middle and he played in the fourth quater. Z wasnt the only player on the front court gettting into fould trouble.

wait a minute- your a "Z" fan right ? then you should know he did play the whole 97-98 season-- the start of the 00-01 season (at least 20 games into it) at least 60 games of the 01-02 season-- and 80 plus of the past two season..

i know what i said was accurate, i've been to most of the damn games .

he hasn't played any defense since his rookie year, and the only reason he was half way decent that year was because we still had a ATHELTIC SHAWN KEMP at the time that was taking on the premier front court player.....

the guy is 7-3-- you and i both know he gets alot of his blocks from behind which is okay, but since he is soooooooooo damn slow he can never block anything coming at him...i don't know if i've seen him goal tend a shot (HEY.. THAT'S A PLUS )


I COULD careless, just win -- whether he is here or not-- JUST WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!