Our LAST Z Debate

[TheAdmin]

For all the complaints of Z defense Z +/- when he was on the court minus his +/- off the court was huge. If he was such a defensive liability this shouldn't have been the case. Compare this to Jmac who we actually did better when he was off the floor.

Z is not perfect but he is a freakin All-star center whose team performed much better when he was on the floor. Dalembert didn't even start for the 76ers and on top of that he is a restricted FA who the 76ers will likely match.d

You get from those stats what you want to get. His +/- ratio was about 2 points on defense. That means the Cavs gave up 106.5 points per 48 when he was on the court to 108.5 points when he was off. Conclusion the team was just as bad defensively giving up a huge amount of points when he was off the court as well as on.

For example:

Eddie Curry (just because we are talking about him) +/- ratio is horrid. However when he is on the court the team gives up 103.2 points per 48. Compare that to Z's oncourt stats of 106.5 and Curry looks like a defensive stud by comparison, but we know thats not the case. My point is those +/- stats are subjective.

 

[NarlCavs]

If Z isn't brought back than who plays C next season? I mean realistic options that can be easily acquired. Dalembert, Curry and Chandler are all restricted. The odds are remote that the Cavs would be able to get any of them. It will take a huge offer to even have a small chance of getting any of these 3 and I'm not high on giving any of them $10 million a season. All signs indicate that their current teams will match any offer and keep them.

Z isn't perfect but his presence is very important to this team. Big guys always get picked apart more than other players. Despite a lack of lateral quickness and athleticism due to his past injuries, Z is still a top 5 C. Take a look around at some of the crap that's starting at C for many NBA teams and then see how the Cavs are better off with a C who can produce like Z. A better defensive system and better defense and effort from perimeter players will help Z alot with any possible defensive deficiencies.
He's not a max player and he's not going to get a max contract.

E-Light,
Daugherty had to retire because of back problems at age 29 so his skills and game never declined due to age. He put up good numbers up until the back injury.
You are right that he received unecessary criticsm while he played and people did realize his importance after he was gone.

 

[E-Light]

Curry's poor defense reflects his numbers, as da bulls gave up over 103 when he was on and only 99 when he was off. We know that's the case. Plus/minus is a good ratio to point out a players importance. We know when Z wasn't on the floor last year, our offense worsened. And the stats back it up.

Conclusion the team was just as bad defensively giving up a huge amount of points when he was off the court as well as on.

Exactly, Z did not hinder our defense.

what really intrigues me of the plus minus is it shows how important Anderson was to the team, even moreso than Z +/- wise, and that's playing quite a few minutes with our pathetic second unit.

 

[E-Light]

E-Light,
Daugherty had to retire because of back problems at age 29 so his skills and game never declined due to age. He put up good numbers up until the back injury.
You are right that he received unecessary criticsm while he played and people did realize his importance after he was gone.

I didn't mean in the way of old age slowing him down. I meant as he got older his statistics such as points came down. I wasn't intending saying the old hag burnt out on us. :chuckles:

 

[Cleveland56]

this is the league leaders is blocks last season. he was # 8, yet he sucks at defense.
and LBJ was second or third in steals and his defense stunk. Stats only tell so much....


please no more of this....I think we know where everyone stands

 

[Karma]

The Ilgauskas ditractors are quite humourous. They search and search for his weaknesses, then absolutely give it to him. They totally ignore all of his strengths, and seem to forget most of Z's problems stem from other players.

Firstly, why would Ilgauskas want a pay cut when he is putting up and contributing like he did when he got the contract? He sees mediocre bigs (Foyle, Boozer, Okur, etc) getting contracts of around 10 million per season, and realises he is worth quite a bit more then that. Personally I believe Z is worth a contract averaging between 10-12 million. But should Z expect that? Hell no.

Now to Z's possible replacements. Dalembert is seen as a defensive specialist. He was fortunate last season to play under a defensive coach which could bring his talents to the fore. Unfortunately Dalembert proved to O'Brien that he is not a smart player. Whilst being a good 1 on 1 defender, he struggled in decision making. Rotations were bad, and his play totaly lacked any structure. He sat alot because mentally he is weak.

Eddy Curry is a talented scorer. That is when his head is in his game. Apart from that, I struggle to find where he is positive influense. He plays with no heart "no pun intended", and just lacks any type of hustle. He is a weaker defender then Ilgauskas by far, and his efforts elsewhere on the court also compare miserably.

Match Ilgauskas with a decent point guard on defense, and he is a solid defender. Match him with a punk like McInnis, and Z is a problem. Well it looks like we have solved our major problem. Its funny when Z was matched up with Knight, and Miller at point and the cavalier's were winning, Z's defense didn't seem to be an issue. Then McInnis comes aboard and we have a problem. More then a coincidense kids.

 

[Pioneer10]

As E-light pointed out how is this a knock against Z. We know he isn't great on defense but certainly didn't improve when he wasn't in it. Z not a great defender but he's adequate and he's a HUGE plus on the offensive end.

Z has his faults and I'm not trying to deny them but his pluses outweigh his minuses by far. Imagine Z and Lebron with some real shooters and we would have been a very dangerous team last year. Dalembert didn't even break the starting lineup last year with the Sixers: quite sad. In addition, how bad did we suck when Z had his broken finger - we sucked pretty bad.

Add Ray Allen to Z and Lebron and we become championship contenders instantenously. Add Ray Allen to Lebron and Dalembert we become a playoff team but not championship contenders.

 

[cavincali]

and LBJ was second or third in steals and his defense stunk. Stats only tell so much....

dont be a victim of you own comments bro. lebron is a great scorer, he scored over 20 points but since its just stats we should ignore that to, right?

dont get me wrong though, im not saying he is a great defender, im saying he is solid.

z was victimized from other players on the team. nuff said.

 

[PIP]

every single team he's been on ?

 

[highplainsdrifter]

Z is definitely a great center, and it's a tough decision. for 10-11 mil yes, any more forgettaboutit. We cannot strap our cap space on someone who's tapped his potential and no guarantee to be healthy. I'd rather have a young athletic defensive center with room to grow. Dalembert did great against Detroit in the playoffs. Mike Brown's a defensive coach, and the 2 top defensive teams played in the finals this year. We need an athletic, defensive center. Who would y'all rather have LeBron play with, Z Or Big Ben!!??

 

[TyGuy]

I think when all the smoke clears we will get our familiar big man back

 

[cavincali]

nice avator tyguy. :chuckles:

 

[West Remy]

Click Me!

- The Cavaliers have until Friday to sign center Zydrunas Ilgauskas to an extension. If they do it before July 1, he can sign for six years with 12.5-percent raises. If they wait until the free-agent period, the new collective bargaining agreement dictates that they can sign him only to 10-percent raises. If he signs with another team, he can get a maximum five-year deal with 8-percent raises. However, they appear to be letting the market dictate what they'll pay for him. The teams with enough money to sign him don't appear serious -- New Orleans has Jamaal Magliore; Atlanta has plenty of money, but might not offer him more than $7 million or $8 million a season, a source says; Milwaukee will probably draft Andrew Bogut; and the Clippers have Chris Kaman.

- It's curious that LeBron James brought up Bulls center Eddy Curry's name on Friday when talking about possible free agents, but never mentioned Ilgauskas. In the past, he's been a staunch supporter of re-signing Ilgauskas. If one connects the dots, perhaps there was a reason. Curry recently signed with agent Leon Rose. Rose is rumored to have ties to James' new Four Horsemen Management team.

- Rumors say the Cavaliers are interested in Grizzlies point guard Earl Watson as well as Sonics point guard Antonio Daniels in free agency. Watson might be more of a pure point guard than Daniels, and could come cheaper.

- The Suns' trade of swingman Quentin Richardson to the Knicks ends any speculation of them allowing Joe Johnson to go anywhere in free agency. The Suns will now match any offer he gets from another team.

- It doesn't appear as if former Cavaliers coach Paul Silas will land one of the openings in the NBA this summer. However, he could be one of the first coaches hired next season.

 

[blkmagic]

Age had nothing to do with Brad's skills going downhill. It was his back problems that prevented him from performing up to par. And I'm sorry...I like Z but he couldn't hold Brad's jock strap!!! Brad was better than Z in every facet of the game except for maybe blocked shots.

 

[TyGuy]

nice avator tyguy. :chuckles:

Why thank you