Start the Debates: Who is your Top-25 All-Time?

[RchfldCavRaised]

1. Jordan - maniacal desire to win. Delivered once he figured out how to win and refused to let anyone take it from him until Krause blew it up

2. Bron - You HAVE to penalize him for joining Wades team/organization to win. Have to. He came back and won one here and that’s the only reason he’s ahead of Magic and Bird, otherwise he’d be 4th.

3. Magic - He was the true heart and soul of those Laker teams that would have won 6 titles at least if they didn’t split them with an equally yoked Boston dynasty. Maniacal competitor who did whatever he had to do to win and only was compromised by off court trappings, otherwise he’d be #1 on my list. I don’t think Jordan or LeBron had to go through an equally maniacal competitor to get their rings like Magic had to do with Bird.

4. Bird - read everything I said for Magic. Read Larry Bird Magic Johnson when the game was ours by Macmullen or that Boston Celtics Wish it Lasted Forever by Shaugnessee if you don’t understand why I put both of these guys ahead of Cap

5. Kareem - enigmatic so not a great leader but individually great and truly unstoppable. He had longevity sure, but in those last few years they won in spite of him and essentially carried him when he probably would have retired 4 years earlier if not for money mismanagement. I don’t give him the props for longevity that I do LeBron.

I’ll stop there

 

[Stark]

Congratulations to Steph Curry for jumping into my top-15.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

Congratulations to Steph Curry for jumping into my top-15.

I’d like to bring a off RCF debate here…

I simply can’t put Curry ahead of Gary Payton in my top 5 pgs. I can’t.

He’s not really even the pg for his team. Draymond is.

My top 5 pgs remains

1. Magic
2. Isiah
3. Stockton
4. Kidd
5. Payton

6. Curry
7. CP3
8. Frazier
9. Tony Parker
10. Nash

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

As a SG or purely as a guard, he’s DEFINITELY higher than many others but Pg is… I hold such a reverence for what I need from a great one and I simply can’t ignore that when push comes to shove, he’s best off the ball. On both ends.

 

[Rich]

1) Michael Jordan- I go back and forth on this, but his peak was better than anyone else's. Really though, I could flip the top 3 around in any order and be ok.

2) LeBron

3) Kareem

Next Group

4) Tim Duncan- I don't think Duncan gets the credit he should and isn't hi enough in these lists. Those Spurs regularly beat teams that they were not favored against, both in the West and in the Finals. The Lakers, the Thunder, the Pistons, the Heat. So it isn't like he rolled into every series with some stacked team everyone thought would win.

5) Magic

6) Wilt

7) Bird

Next Group

8) Hakeem- Ranking Hakeem ahead of Kobe, Curry, and Shaq, is not gonna be well received, but to me, he's the most gifted, most skilled C to ever play the game.

9) Shaq

10) Curry- This wouldn't have been the case w/o this last Finals MVP. Here's the rub with Curry. When Durant was on his team, Durant was absolutely a better player than he was. In all situations. However, w/o Durant on his team, Curry simply seems like his impact is greater than Kevin Durant's

11) Kevin Durant- Yes, he's better than Kobe. Kobe will always get knocked by me for being the 2nd best player for 3 of his five titles. By a clear margin.

12) Bill Russell

13) Kobe

Next Group

14) MOses Malone

15) Julius Irving

16) Oscar Robertson

17) Kevin Garnett

18) Dwyane Wade- Wade is interesting. He'd have been higher if he'd have been a little healthier. His body didn't hold up and age nearly as well as some of the other guys, largely due to his style of play. At his best, I think he was better than Kobe. But his best didn't last long enough.

19) Giannis- This is simply due to age and time in the league. If I were to project forward, he'll end up higher than quite a few names on this list.

Last Group

20) Elgin Baylor

21) Chris Paul

22) Karl Malone- This is really low for Malone, who has career stats matched by only a few. But I just don't think he was better than any of the guys ahead of him, and he doesn't have any rings to bump him up.

23) David Robison

24) Jerry West

25) Nikola JOkic- This is a hot take. I get it. But two league MVPs is hard to ignore. I think he vindicates this next season when his team is, hopefully, healthy.

BIG Snub- Dirk Nowitzki. He really probably should be in ahead of Jokic, and maybe even West. But hey, it happens.

Snubs: Charles Barkley, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, George Gervin, Scottie Pippen, John Stockton, Kawhi Leonard, Isiah Thomas.

 

[Ohioplayer00]

I don't want to write a memoir for each selection I make since there's 25 of these guys, so I'm just going to throw my list out there and leave it open for scrutiny.

1. LeBron James (2003-present)
2. Michael Jordan (1984-1993; 1995-1998; 2001-2003)
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (1970-1989)
4. Shaquille O'Neal (1992-2011)
5. Wilt Chamberlain (1959-1973)
6. Hakeem Olajuwon (1984-2002)
7. Magic Johnson (1979-1991; 1995-1996)
8. Larry Bird (1979-1992)
9. Tim Duncan (1997-2016)
10. Kevin Durant (2008-present)
11. Kobe Bryant (1996-2016)
12. Oscar Robertston (1960-1974)
13. David Robinson (1989-2003)
14. Moses Malone (1976-1995)
15. Kevin Garnett (1995-2016)
16. Dirk Nowitzki (1998-2019)
17. Stephen Curry (2010-present)
18. Chris Paul (2005-present)
19. Scottie Pippen (1988-2004)
20. Dwyane Wade (2003-2019)
21. Charles Barkley (1985-2000)
22. Karl Malone (1985-2004)
23. Jerry West (1960-1974)
24. John Stockton (1985-2003)
25. Elgin Baylor (1958-1972)

No, I didn't forget about Bill Russell.

Your list is null and void without Russell

 

[Ohioplayer00]

As much as I clown Bill Simmons, I think he is a really good basketball historian, if sometimes biased. The argument he makes for Russell > Wilt in his Book of Basketball is pretty bullet proof in my mind.

Wilt stacked up a lot of counting numbers, but routinely lost the head-to-head with Bill Russell. His stats were noticeably worse vs Russell than almost every other center he crossed over with (except Cavs great Nate Thurmond). Russell unsurprisingly had the career head-to-head in terms of regular season and playoff victories. I think it is notable that Wilt's greatest career achievement (67 title) was the one time he did beat Russell.

I'm interested in what your argument for Wilt is. Don't get me wrong, I am a big Wilt fan, but I have a hard time putting him in the same tier as MJ (highest peak), Kareem (long career and very high peak), LeBron (literally 20 year peak), and Russell (most rings + winningest player).

Totally agree with you there!

 

[letgocavs]

I've gone through everyone's list and I don't see how multiple people put dirk ahead of curry. Or Kg. Naw not above curry.

 

[letgocavs]

Kobe vs LeBron is tough for me. I think mamba mentality is real and puts kobe in consideration against LeBron plus staying with one team his whole career.

 

[foucault87]

1) Michael Jordan- I go back and forth on this, but his peak was better than anyone else's. Really though, I could flip the top 3 around in any order and be ok.

2) LeBron

3) Kareem

Next Group

4) Tim Duncan- I don't think Duncan gets the credit he should and isn't hi enough in these lists. Those Spurs regularly beat teams that they were not favored against, both in the West and in the Finals. The Lakers, the Thunder, the Pistons, the Heat. So it isn't like he rolled into every series with some stacked team everyone thought would win.

5) Magic

6) Wilt

7) Bird

Next Group

8) Hakeem- Ranking Hakeem ahead of Kobe, Curry, and Shaq, is not gonna be well received, but to me, he's the most gifted, most skilled C to ever play the game.

9) Shaq

10) Curry- This wouldn't have been the case w/o this last Finals MVP. Here's the rub with Curry. When Durant was on his team, Durant was absolutely a better player than he was. In all situations. However, w/o Durant on his team, Curry simply seems like his impact is greater than Kevin Durant's

11) Kevin Durant- Yes, he's better than Kobe. Kobe will always get knocked by me for being the 2nd best player for 3 of his five titles. By a clear margin.

12) Bill Russell

13) Kobe

Next Group

14) MOses Malone

15) Julius Irving

16) Oscar Robertson

17) Kevin Garnett

18) Dwyane Wade- Wade is interesting. He'd have been higher if he'd have been a little healthier. His body didn't hold up and age nearly as well as some of the other guys, largely due to his style of play. At his best, I think he was better than Kobe. But his best didn't last long enough.

19) Giannis- This is simply due to age and time in the league. If I were to project forward, he'll end up higher than quite a few names on this list.

Last Group

20) Elgin Baylor

21) Chris Paul

22) Karl Malone- This is really low for Malone, who has career stats matched by only a few. But I just don't think he was better than any of the guys ahead of him, and he doesn't have any rings to bump him up.

23) David Robison

24) Jerry West

25) Nikola JOkic- This is a hot take. I get it. But two league MVPs is hard to ignore. I think he vindicates this next season when his team is, hopefully, healthy.

BIG Snub- Dirk Nowitzki. He really probably should be in ahead of Jokic, and maybe even West. But hey, it happens.

Snubs: Charles Barkley, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, George Gervin, Scottie Pippen, John Stockton, Kawhi Leonard, Isiah Thomas.

I disagree with your list a lot but I do love it because I think its bold. Duncan top 5 is really spicy. Russell out of the top 10 is even spicier. This is what makes basketball so fun.

 

[foucault87]

I’d like to bring a off RCF debate here…

I simply can’t put Curry ahead of Gary Payton in my top 5 pgs. I can’t.

He’s not really even the pg for his team. Draymond is.

My top 5 pgs remains

1. Magic
2. Isiah
3. Stockton
4. Kidd
5. Payton

6. Curry
7. CP3
8. Frazier
9. Tony Parker
10. Nash

So my take on this is that as a pure PG Steph is not top 5. I would have Nash above him on that list too. As just a guard tho? I think only Magic is clearly better tho I would have thm both in the same tier.

 

[NMCav]

1. Magic Johnson - Yes I have him number 1. He had to retire at 31 because he got HIV. I wonder if Michael and the Bulls would have had that first 3 peat if he didn't retire. And before anyone says he was slowing down his last full season he averaged 19 points 12.5 assists 7 rebounds. He was still doing his thing. And he retired in his prime. Had 5 championships at the point he retired. Easily could have gotten 1 or 2 if he played 5 more seasons. Lakers went from 58 wins in 90-91 to 43 wins in 91-92. Only real change to roster was Magic calling it quits.

2. Michael Jordan
3. LeBron James
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Tim Duncan
6. Kareem Abdul-Jabar
7. Larry Bird
8. Hakeem Olajuwon
9. Wilt Chamberlin
10. Bill Russell

 

[Lee]

1) Michael Jordan- I go back and forth on this, but his peak was better than anyone else's. Really though, I could flip the top 3 around in any order and be ok.

2) LeBron

3) Kareem

Next Group

4) Tim Duncan- I don't think Duncan gets the credit he should and isn't hi enough in these lists. Those Spurs regularly beat teams that they were not favored against, both in the West and in the Finals. The Lakers, the Thunder, the Pistons, the Heat. So it isn't like he rolled into every series with some stacked team everyone thought would win.

5) Magic

6) Wilt

7) Bird

Next Group

8) Hakeem- Ranking Hakeem ahead of Kobe, Curry, and Shaq, is not gonna be well received, but to me, he's the most gifted, most skilled C to ever play the game.

9) Shaq

10) Curry- This wouldn't have been the case w/o this last Finals MVP. Here's the rub with Curry. When Durant was on his team, Durant was absolutely a better player than he was. In all situations. However, w/o Durant on his team, Curry simply seems like his impact is greater than Kevin Durant's

11) Kevin Durant- Yes, he's better than Kobe. Kobe will always get knocked by me for being the 2nd best player for 3 of his five titles. By a clear margin.

12) Bill Russell

13) Kobe

Next Group

14) MOses Malone

15) Julius Irving

16) Oscar Robertson

17) Kevin Garnett

18) Dwyane Wade- Wade is interesting. He'd have been higher if he'd have been a little healthier. His body didn't hold up and age nearly as well as some of the other guys, largely due to his style of play. At his best, I think he was better than Kobe. But his best didn't last long enough.

19) Giannis- This is simply due to age and time in the league. If I were to project forward, he'll end up higher than quite a few names on this list.

Last Group

20) Elgin Baylor

21) Chris Paul

22) Karl Malone- This is really low for Malone, who has career stats matched by only a few. But I just don't think he was better than any of the guys ahead of him, and he doesn't have any rings to bump him up.

23) David Robison

24) Jerry West

25) Nikola JOkic- This is a hot take. I get it. But two league MVPs is hard to ignore. I think he vindicates this next season when his team is, hopefully, healthy.

BIG Snub- Dirk Nowitzki. He really probably should be in ahead of Jokic, and maybe even West. But hey, it happens.

Snubs: Charles Barkley, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, George Gervin, Scottie Pippen, John Stockton, Kawhi Leonard, Isiah Thomas.

I like your list, Duncan is a bit high, i would move him behind Hakeem personally, have Magic at 4, and Duncan and Hakeem make 2nd tier. never apologize for having Hakeem too high up, he is criminally under rated. I also like how high you had Moses, i might be tempted to move him up even more. I had a debate that someone thought i was crazy for saying Moses was the best player on the 1982 76ers not Dr J...and I love Dr J, but he thought i was crazy.

I think Giannis ends a bit higher, wouldnt put Durant over Kobe, but Kobe is just out of my top 10 too.

All in all, we have allot of similar thoughts on the rankings. PS, Barkley is top 20 too, but each have our own opinions.

 

[Ohioplayer00]

I disagree with your list a lot but I do love it because I think its bold. Duncan top 5 is really spicy. Russell out of the top 10 is even spicier. This is what makes basketball so fun.

I guess I’m wondering what people are basing their choices on?

 

[Ohioplayer00]

So my take on this is that as a pure PG Steph is not top 5. I would have Nash above him on that list too. As just a guard tho? I think only Magic is clearly better tho I would have thm both in the same tier.

My disclaimer is this: Curry is quite possibly the greatest “shooter” this game has ever seen. But if we are talking pure PGs he falls behind (IMHO) Magic, Nash, Zeke, Stockton, Payton, Parker, CP3 and I might even throw in Mo Cheeks!