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The 2020 Cleveland Indians

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JMcCurry08 said:
The part of the Pluto piece that has me thinking now......wonder if we could flip Hand for a bat by Monday. He’s got his stuff back together recently and teams value relievers
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To be honest, we lose Hand, I am betting against the Indians in the playoffs. We have no legit way at the moment to replace Hand in the bullpen without gambling upon pitchers who have no big league experience/have control issues history wise...

On paper for this season, the only guy we can legitimately think about moving is Clev. One because he is a starting pitcher who could net us some solid players and two, because it is an the area of the organization that is stronger than any other part of the organization.

If we get a bat this season its a rental, aka Bruce type that we got in the past, or a young MLB ready player with other prospects for Clev. Trading from our deepest spot is the only move we can make.

Now in hindsight, if Dolan would have known about the pandemic coming up, we may have traded Lindor before the season started and got max value, but right now, I dont think Dolan will cut as many guys as Pluto thinks. White Soxs will be too good of a roster for us to try and compete once Lindor leaves so we aren't going to win much in 22, so we gotta do it now and 21. That is our chances to win it all.
 
jup said:
Hand walks at the end of the year unless they pick up the $10 mil option, because you aren't giving him a QO when you can have him for $10. So they would get absolutely nothing for hand. Trade him now and you get something unless you think he is so valuable to finishing off the playoff run this year.

Clevinger you can trade from now until the end of next years trade deadline for less money (probably $7 ish in arb versus $10 for Hands option). And in particular you can trade this off season when teams are reshaping their rosters.

With Hand being the more expensive, zero return at seasons end, his replacement on your 40 man performing well, and his departure probably not detracting from your chances at a post season run, seems like an easy choice. Just not sure what you get for him, but something is better than nothing when you are trying to maximize assets for a small market team that was already constrained before COVID.
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You don't think they wouldn't just pick up his option and trade him?
 
if we're dealing in what ifs ---- if San Diego knew the dh was coming to the NL would they have traded Franny?

with regard to payroll - in jan/feb with our payroll at somewhere between 90-95 for 2020 pre-covid, I had the definite impression that those who report on the Indians believed that the 2021 payroll would be, had to be, even lower than 90-95. the Sherman atm had closed and the Dolans just didn't the have independent wealth to keep spending (allegedly at a loss) on the Cleveland Indians as a business. I could be FOS but that was the impression I had then,

As economic hard times wipe out all kinds of businesses that are barely making it, I wonder if the Indians and the Dolans might be one of those businesses
 
xmasbuck said:
if we're dealing in what ifs ---- if San Diego knew the dh was coming to the NL would they have traded Franny?

with regard to payroll - in jan/feb with our payroll at somewhere between 90-95 for 2020 pre-covid, I had the definite impression that those who report on the Indians believed that the 2021 payroll would be, had to be, even lower than 90-95. the Sherman atm had closed and the Dolans just didn't the have independent wealth to keep spending (allegedly at a loss) on the Cleveland Indians as a business. I could be FOS but that was the impression I had then,

As economic hard times wipe out all kinds of businesses that are barely making it, I wonder if the Indians and the Dolans might be one of those businesses
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I think our organization knew that these last few years were our last chance to target DH players on NL ballclubs at a reduced price.

We got a good one.
 
The Indians now have a 1.5 game lead over the Twins and 1.0 over the surprising White Sox. We have the opportunity to open up some distance over the Twins in the next week and a half.

After today's game against the Cardinals, who are really struggling to score runs after playing 19 games in the last 15 days, the Indians next 10 games consist of seven against the Royals and 3 against the Brewers. The Royals have lost 8 of 12 and are 13-20 overall. The Brewers have gone 2-3 against the Pirates and 2-2 against the Reds in their last nine games. Overall they're 15-17.

With 11 games coming up against sub-.500 teams who have not been playing that well lately the Indians soft middle part of their schedule continues. They have won 11 of 14 against the Pirates, Tigers, and Cardinals and their next 11 are all against teams below .500.

The Twins, OTOH, have six games coming up against Detroit and three against the surging White Sox, who have won 10 of their last 12 and are killing the ball. The Tigers are no pushovers, either. In their last eight games they're 2-1 against the Indians, 2-1 against the Cubs, and 2-0 against the Twins (last night). They're playing as well as anybody right now.

If the Indians can win 7 or 8 of these next 11 games against the Cardinals, Brewers, and Royals while the Twins struggle against the very hot Tigers and White Sox the opportunity is there to add a few games to the 1.5 game lead they already enjoy over the Twins.

The White Sox are on a roll and turning into a huge problem. We have three more games against them at home. The Twins and White Sox have seven games left against each other which is very good for the Indians.
 
A few thoughts...

1) IF the financial situation is as dire as Pluto makes out...and I think it is...the Dolans may look at this season as the last hurrah, the last chance they have at winning the World Series...and not make any move
that would be viewed as a cost cutter.

2) Lots of sentiment that Plesac is a better option than Carrasco. I strongly disagree. A handful of starts doesn't make a difference. Cookies velo sagged during three starts. Such things happen, usually because of mechanics. He was throwing as hard as ever yesterday and maintaining.

3) If we trade Hand, who takes Karinchaks place? Its like saying we should have traded Cody Allen because we had Miller. If we've learned anything over the last six or seven years, it's that a dominant pen can carry a team thru the post season.

4) Lindor is still Lindor, and will bring a premium return. Covid may destroy the smaller market teams, but its not much more than a financial blip to the major markets. (See the Betts contract) The Yanks et al are not gonna cede the Series to the Dodgers for the next several years.

5) Pitching is still the name of the game. With our pop gun offense, look at where we are in the standings..in a decent position to end up with the best record in the AL. Even without any money over the foreseeable future, we have pitching in spades at close to league minimum...which means we can contend, even if we shed contracts.

6) If the Tribe is in dire straits financially, every team in the division will be in close to the same situation. If a rising tide lifts all boats, a lowered tide works in the opposite direction for franchises in the Midwest.

7) Speaking of pop gun offenses...we have outscored the Twins by a decent margin in August.
 
This idea that Hand reduces the Indians' chances in the playoffs is an overreach IMO. While his results have been good, the performances of Maton, Wittgren, and Hill make Hand expendable IMO. In fact, in a tight game I'd prefer to see any of those 3 over Hand. Trading Hand, doesn't mean they can't acquire another backend RP in another deal too. If Clevinger is traded, I wouldn't be surprised to see one included.
 
Derek said:
Our pen has been really good, but I don’t think we have any luxury guys. If we dealt Hand, I’d see us as being short handed.
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Still have Whitgren and now Hill/Maton ... Of course that isn't as good as Allen/Miller/Shaw but remember, we needed all that because of our starters were thin. Now with Beiber/Clev (if not traded)/Civale/Cookie/Plesac ... they will all give you 5 to 6 innings minimum (usually). And, if you only need 4 in a playoff series, I always contend Cookie would make a good 2-3 inning reliever for the short-term. There are options also like (Gose and McK)....
 
CDAV45 said:
This idea that Hand reduces the Indians' chances in the playoffs is an overreach IMO. While his results have been good, the performances of Maton, Wittgren, and Hill make Hand expendable IMO. In fact, in a tight game I'd prefer to see any of those 3 over Hand. Trading Hand, doesn't mean they can't acquire another backend RP in another deal too. If Clevinger is traded, I wouldn't be surprised to see one included.
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I disagree only because Hand is also a lefty as well. We dont have a current internal left handed reliever that is proven. And honestly this is a chance to win it all this season we need the veterans out there like Hand to mix with the younger guys. I am not against trading Hand if we get a replacement, but otherwise we need that experience plus the fact he is left handed out there.
 
chuck0609 said:
this is depressing as hell...
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what a shock.. "...glooom..despair.. and agony.. oh my..." Typical of the Plain Dumb.. Better to get the negative story first before someone beats them to to darkness.. smh.
 
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