The 2020 Cleveland Indians

[CDAV45]

Leon is a free agent, Hedges has team control just like Perez does. If you are a heavy pitching roster then you need very good defensive catchers

All 3 are very good defense/little offense catchers. You could literally put them in a bag, shake it, and pull one out and get about the same damn thing. The only difference is that Perez is the most expensive and most likely to be injured. I doubt they will invest $9M in 2 catchers that can't hit.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Berto was injured early this season and it affected his hitting. Last year he got signficant playing time for the only time in his career and hit .239/.774 with 24 home runs in 119 games, which is more than acceptable offense for the best defensive catcher in baseball. There's no reason to think he won't put up similar numbers in a normal season next year.

Leon is a different story; in 2018 and 2019 he hit .177 and .192 with only 10 home runs in 437 AB's. He has 27 career home runs in 1,235 AB's. He doesn't come close to Berto either offensively or defensively IMO. He lets balls in the dirt get by him and he launched one throw into center field that was 15 feet off the bag.

Hedges is the same hitter as Leon. Check out their career numbers.

Hedges 1,232 AB's, 49 HR's, .198/.612
Leon 1,235 AB's, 27 HR's, .216/.611

Hedges is three years younger and better defensively with a little more pop. I would trade or release Leon and go with Berto and Hedges next year. They asked for Hedges in the Clevinger deal for a reason.

 

[MadThinker88]

Sandy Leon is a Free Agent... His departure is freeing a 40 man roster spot (needed for adding some players)..

One more reason to move on from Sandy Leon - Catcher interference calls.

He had 3 or 4 of those during the time Roberto was injured. I honestly don't believe Perez has a total of 3 catcher interference calls against him as a member of the Tribe over multiple seasons..

 

[sportscoach]

All 3 are very good defense/little offense catchers. You could literally put them in a bag, shake it, and pull one out and get about the same damn thing. The only difference is that Perez is the most expensive and most likely to be injured. I doubt they will invest $9M in 2 catchers that can't hit.

I 100% disagree that they wont invest the 9 mil in Perez and Hedges. They knew how much Hedges was due when they got him, so why would they only get a gold glove winning, late 20s catcher with a few years of control on him, if they were going to cut him? Also Perez is way too good of a catcher, just to be like, we cannot afford him when cutting/trading Lindor, Hand and Santana. That right there puts a projected payroll for next season at 50ish mil keeping everyone else. If you want to compete with a pitching first ball club, you have to invest in the catcher position on the recieving/defensive side.

Perez had a defensive war of 0.6 playing in 32 games with shoulder issues. He has been in the top 5 in almost every statistical category for baseball since 2015/16 area. He had a positive overall WAR having an ops of .480. That essentially states his defense alone will win games for you. He is one of the best catchers defensively in all of baseball. He really ranks as one of the best defensive players in all of baseball. A 2.7 defensive war for a full season is worth 5 mil. So why peeps have an issue with us keeping Perez and Hedges is a joke to me.

Also Leon is a free agent... if he is with the tribe next season it will be as a minor league free agent who was invited to spring training. He is not a factor in the catching room next season at this current moment.

 

[CDAV45]

I 100% disagree that they wont invest the 9 mil in Perez and Hedges. They knew how much Hedges was due when they got him, so why would they only get a gold glove winning, late 20s catcher with a few years of control on him, if they were going to cut him? Also Perez is way too good of a catcher, just to be like, we cannot afford him when cutting/trading Lindor, Hand and Santana. That right there puts a projected payroll for next season at 50ish mil keeping everyone else. If you want to compete with a pitching first ball club, you have to invest in the catcher position on the recieving/defensive side.

Perez had a defensive war of 0.6 playing in 32 games with shoulder issues. He has been in the top 5 in almost every statistical category for baseball since 2015/16 area. He had a positive overall WAR having an ops of .480. That essentially states his defense alone will win games for you. He is one of the best catchers defensively in all of baseball. He really ranks as one of the best defensive players in all of baseball. A 2.7 defensive war for a full season is worth 5 mil. So why peeps have an issue with us keeping Perez and Hedges is a joke to me.

Also Leon is a free agent... if he is with the tribe next season it will be as a minor league free agent who was invited to spring training. He is not a factor in the catching room next season at this current moment.

I don't think Hedges is going anywhere, and you're entitled to your opinion even if we don't share it. My guess is that Perez is traded, Leon isn't signed, and that they acquire a C with more offensive upside even if it means sacrificing a little defense. That would make this team more competitive from an offensive POV.

 

[MadThinker88]

I don't think Hedges is going anywhere, and you're entitled to your opinion even if we don't share it. My guess is that Perez is traded, Leon isn't signed, and that they acquire a C with more offensive upside even if it means sacrificing a little defense. That would make this team more competitive from an offensive POV.

I understand your desire but I ask you to consider the following: if the Tribe really wanted more OFFENSE from the catcher spot, Yan Gomes would not have kept around as long as he was & other players like Francisco Mejia & Eric Haase might still be around..

The Tribe could well transition to more offense behind the plate in time, that would be from one of Bo Naylor or Bryan Lavastida.. I figure both of those guys are 2 plus seasons away...

 

[CDAV45]

I understand your desire but I ask you to consider the following: if the Tribe really wanted more OFFENSE from the catcher spot, Yan Gomes would not have kept around as long as he was & other players like Francisco Mejia & Eric Haase might still be around..

The Tribe could well transition to more offense behind the plate in time, that would be from one of Bo Naylor or Bryan Lavastida.. I figure both of those guys are 2 plus seasons away...

That was at a time when the Indian's offense was top 10, Roberto was healthy, and Roberto was fairly productive with the bat. If anything, it's a prime example of why Perez will be dealt. Gomes was due to make $7M when the Indians traded him. They felt they had an adequate replacement for him. Sound familiar? Problem is I doubt they can get anything close to what Gomes brought them.

 

[DCTribefan]

That was at a time when the Indian's offense was top 10, Roberto was healthy, and Roberto was fairly productive with the bat. If anything, it's a prime example of why Perez will be dealt. Gomes was due to make $7M when the Indians traded him. They felt they had an adequate replacement for him. Sound familiar? Problem is I doubt they can get anything close to what Gomes brought them.

Because Perez is coming off an awful season while Gomes was traded following a 16 HR 48 RBI .266 season when traded.

 

[CDAV45]

No, because in 7 yrs Perez has slashed 212/302/364/666 and he's due $5.5M. Look, I like how Perez handles the pitching staff. I give Gomes and Perez a good portion of credit for the Indians pitching staff's success over the last several years. They now have a younger, cheaper version to do the exact same thing. Like I said in a prior post, I could be wrong.

 

[sportscoach]

No, because in 7 yrs Perez has slashed 212/302/364/666 and he's due $5.5M. Look, I like how Perez handles the pitching staff. I give Gomes and Perez a good portion of credit for the Indians pitching staff's success over the last several years. They now have a younger, cheaper version to do the exact same thing. Like I said in a prior post, I could be wrong.

Hedges isn't as good as Perez defensively and that is saying something since Hedges was one of the best in the NL. Perez may be the best defensive catcher in the pros right now. If Perez goes, we are at best 3rd in the division. You cannot replace what he does for the pitching staff with how he calls games and everything like that. This isnt MLB the Show where you can just replace guys on a whim. I dont know any team out there that wouldn't pay 5 mil for a top 5 defensive catcher.

Also who would we have internally to replace him? We cannot get both the OF and C bat from a trade with Lindor. To replace Perez's WAR from 19 from free agency, would cost more than he will be making anyways.

We got Hedges so we would have Perez's backup long term, not to replace Perez. The Indians organization isn't even thinking about moving Perez. His production defensively has enough dWAR to merit a 5.5 contract.

 

[Kiddo]

Hedges isn't as good as Perez defensively and that is saying something since Hedges was one of the best in the NL. Perez may be the best defensive catcher in the pros right now. If Perez goes, we are at best 3rd in the division. You cannot replace what he does for the pitching staff with how he calls games and everything like that. This isnt MLB the Show where you can just replace guys on a whim. I dont know any team out there that wouldn't pay 5 mil for a top 5 defensive catcher.

Also who would we have internally to replace him? We cannot get both the OF and C bat from a trade with Lindor. To replace Perez's WAR from 19 from free agency, would cost more than he will be making anyways.

We got Hedges so we would have Perez's backup long term, not to replace Perez. The Indians organization isn't even thinking about moving Perez. His production defensively has enough dWAR to merit a 5.5 contract.

Perez has to stay, they just need to improve the offense around him. Perez hitting .200 - .225 is easily good enough considering his value is calling the game and his def.

 

[CDAV45]

Hedges isn't as good as Perez defensively and that is saying something since Hedges was one of the best in the NL. Perez may be the best defensive catcher in the pros right now. If Perez goes, we are at best 3rd in the division. You cannot replace what he does for the pitching staff with how he calls games and everything like that. This isnt MLB the Show where you can just replace guys on a whim. I dont know any team out there that wouldn't pay 5 mil for a top 5 defensive catcher.

Also who would we have internally to replace him? We cannot get both the OF and C bat from a trade with Lindor. To replace Perez's WAR from 19 from free agency, would cost more than he will be making anyways.

We got Hedges so we would have Perez's backup long term, not to replace Perez. The Indians organization isn't even thinking about moving Perez. His production defensively has enough dWAR to merit a 5.5 contract.

The difference is negligible at best outside of Perez's 2019 which was/is an outlier in his age 30 season. He never performed like that before and certainly not in 2020. He's also almost 4 yrs older, more expensive, and more injured. There's a reason Hedges was included in the trade. The difference between winning the division and 3rd is not the difference in Roberto Perez and Austin Hedges. In fact, there is a real chance that Hedges could start outperforming Perez defensively due to their ages. Hedges is renowned for his defense just like Perez. Perez gets on base better and Hedges has more power. Hedges is entering his prime, Perez is leaving his.

Who said we could or couldn't get both the OF and C bat from the Lindor trade? I happen to think that would be easy.

Did CA call you and tell you the reason they acquired Hedges? And no, Hedges wasn't acquired to be Perez's back up "long term" because they have a kid by the name of Naylor that is 2-3 years out and he can actually hit a baseball. There was way more value in Gomes when including offense and defense and look what they did with him. You know why they traded Gomes? Because he was getting expensive and they had Perez. Now that Perez is getting expensive and they have Hedges I expect the same to happen.

 

[sportscoach]

The difference is negligible at best outside of Perez's 2019 which was/is an outlier in his age 30 season. He never performed like that before and certainly not in 2020. He's also almost 4 yrs older, more expensive, and more injured. There's a reason Hedges was included in the trade. The difference between winning the division and 3rd is not the difference in Roberto Perez and Austin Hedges. In fact, there is a real chance that Hedges could start outperforming Perez defensively due to their ages. Hedges is renowned for his defense just like Perez. Perez gets on base better and Hedges has more power. Hedges is entering his prime, Perez is leaving his.

Who said we could or couldn't get both the OF and C bat from the Lindor trade? I happen to think that would be easy.

Did CA call you and tell you the reason they acquired Hedges? And no, Hedges wasn't acquired to be Perez's back up "long term" because they have a kid by the name of Naylor that is 2-3 years out and he can actually hit a baseball. There was way more value in Gomes when including offense and defense and look what they did with him. You know why they traded Gomes? Because he was getting expensive and they had Perez. Now that Perez is getting expensive and they have Hedges I expect the same to happen.

Perez isn't that expensive though, to sign someone in free agency with the same WAR would cost more, plus we internally have no catchers to replace him. It would be different if Naylor was ready to take over, but with no internal replacement, we would have to gamble on Hedges and whomever we can acquire.

Also chemistry between catcher and a pitcher is super important. Perez is way to good with Rapport with pitchers and recieving to replace.

I will honestly never agree with the statement we should cut Perez because "he is getting to expensive" at 5.5 mil. We are at 50ish mil trading/cutting Lindor, Santana and Hand. I dont see why we have to go any lower by cutting/trading currently the guy who may be the best defensive catcher in all of baseball...

 

[CDAV45]

Perez isn't that expensive though, to sign someone in free agency with the same WAR would cost more, plus we internally have no catchers to replace him. It would be different if Naylor was ready to take over, but with no internal replacement, we would have to gamble on Hedges and whomever we can acquire.

Also chemistry between catcher and a pitcher is super important. Perez is way to good with Rapport with pitchers and recieving to replace.

I will honestly never agree with the statement we should cut Perez because "he is getting to expensive" at 5.5 mil. We are at 50ish mil trading/cutting Lindor, Santana and Hand. I dont see why we have to go any lower by cutting/trading currently the guy who may be the best defensive catcher in all of baseball...

There is an internal replacement even though you don't want to acknowledge such. We'll see what happens. Just stop trying to BS me with threats that the pitching staff won't be as good if Perez is gone and Hedges replaces him. Perez didn't start this season until August 18th and Leon was calling the pitches up to that point. I think Bieber and company were doing just fine, how 'bout you?

Here's a few tidbits about our boy Hedges:

• Baseball Prospectus’ Fielding Runs Above Average number (FRAA) judges that he has essentially saved 24.7 runs more than an average catcher (1st in MLB among catchers)
• Fangraphs places a 23.4 Defensive WAR indicator on his 2019 work (2nd in MLB among catchers)
• Hedges has logged a 18.7 RAA according to Statcorner (1st in MLB among catchers); the site also finds that he has been +141 on framing strike calls (1st among catchers)

Sorry, but these facts don't align with your feelings. Perez will soon be 32 and Hedges recently turned 28. Perez battled a shoulder injury that delayed the start of his season and benched him for a couple of games after his season started. Outside of 2019(an outlier in his career) Perez could not hit a damn thing, but he is fantastic defensively. Hedges is also top of the league defensively. Perez is due to make $5.5M while Hedges is due to make $3.5M. They are not paying 2 catchers that cannot hit a damn thing $9M. One is likely to go IMO.

 

[sportscoach]

There is an internal replacement even though you don't want to acknowledge such. We'll see what happens. Just stop trying to BS me with threats that the pitching staff won't be as good if Perez is gone and Hedges replaces him. Perez didn't start this season until August 18th and Leon was calling the pitches up to that point. I think Bieber and company were doing just fine, how 'bout you?

Here's a few tidbits about our boy Hedges:

• Baseball Prospectus’ Fielding Runs Above Average number (FRAA) judges that he has essentially saved 24.7 runs more than an average catcher (1st in MLB among catchers)
• Fangraphs places a 23.4 Defensive WAR indicator on his 2019 work (2nd in MLB among catchers)
• Hedges has logged a 18.7 RAA according to Statcorner (1st in MLB among catchers); the site also finds that he has been +141 on framing strike calls (1st among catchers)

Sorry, but these facts don't align with your feelings. Perez will soon be 32 and Hedges recently turned 28. Perez battled a shoulder injury that delayed the start of his season and benched him for a couple of games after his season started. Outside of 2019(an outlier in his career) Perez could not hit a damn thing, but he is fantastic defensively. Hedges is also top of the league defensively. Perez is due to make $5.5M while Hedges is due to make $3.5M. They are not paying 2 catchers that cannot hit a damn thing $9M. One is likely to go IMO.

Where is Roberto Perez in that ranking?

Also i know this isn't 100% a stat people measure, but Perez as a catcher has kept his pitchers ERA under 4 (3.51) and the Average is 4.17.

He has been in the top 5 in putouts, assists, double plays, caught stealing (he is actually #1 actively in that stat), total zone runs, fielding %, He hasn't had a pass ball in over 1000 innings plus in that same time period, he has only allowed 33 SBs and 30 CS.

Hedges on other hand (about the same time frame) last 1000 innings has allowed for 6 pass balls, 33 SBs to 18 CS, He has allowed pitchers to have a 4.29 ERA, to the 4.25 average

Yes that Stat does come with the pitchers throwing, so we may be able to throw something like that out the Window..

Now onto another stat...

Perez has a career WAR of 7.4 in 446 games (3529 innings) to Hedges 0.4 in 412 games (3094 innings) Using baseball references WAR values, Hedges has a career dWAR of 3.5 while Perez has a career dWAR of 7.5.

He has accumulated 7.5 dWAR in 446 games, Ranks him 104th all time. Next best player with less than 500 games is at 6.0 dWAR. Go by theory and say he had a full career (didnt start as a backup and gets lets ya 1300 area in games, he would be ranked 6th all time with a career dWAR of like 22 something).