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The incredibly awesome Mike Bibby thread !!!
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Re: The AWESOME Mike Bibby TO THE HAWKS Thread !
This trade still makes no sense for the Kings. Even without Bibby's contract they'll still be over or right at the salary cap this offseason. They won't have any room to make big FA signings unless they unload more contracts.
Why all of a sudden are the Kings in contract and player dump mode? They sure haven't been the last few seasons. Just last summer they badly overpaid for Mikki Moore. They gave Salmons a big long term contract when nobody else was offering him one. They took on Kenny Thomas' horrible contract. And finally they gave Kevin Martin a new contract that was much higher than many on the league thought he would get.
They gave away a valuable piece in Bibby and got nothing in return. Cavs fans anger should be directed at Geoff Petrie and the Kings. Petrie's reputation has started to go downhill recently and moves like this one don't help.
This trade still makes no sense for the Kings. Even without Bibby's contract they'll still be over or right at the salary cap this offseason. They won't have any room to make big FA signings unless they unload more contracts.
Why all of a sudden are the Kings in contract and player dump mode? They sure haven't been the last few seasons. Just last summer they badly overpaid for Mikki Moore. They gave Salmons a big long term contract when nobody else was offering him one. They took on Kenny Thomas' horrible contract. And finally they gave Kevin Martin a new contract that was much higher than many on the league thought he would get.
They gave away a valuable piece in Bibby and got nothing in return. Cavs fans anger should be directed at Geoff Petrie and the Kings. Petrie's reputation has started to go downhill recently and moves like this one don't help.
RyGuy25
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Re: The AWESOME Mike Bibby TO THE HAWKS Thread !
Okay, first off, the Kings is currently in the bottom third in the league in payroll. The Kings want cap room for 2009, not this year. Bibby will make $14.5 million next year while the players they acquired will be off the books(with the exception of Sheldon Williams' $3.4 million). Mikki Moore, though problably over paid, was only signed for one year. As far as Kenny Thomas, he was acquired because the Kings were getting rid of a much heftier contract in Chris Webber.
Re: The AWESOME Mike Bibby TO THE HAWKS Thread !
If the Kings want cap room for 2009 than it wouldn't be that much of a problem to keep a better talent in Bibby since his salary comes off the cap after next season. He wouldn't hinder their desire for cap room in 2009.
I can understand making trades for cap space or to unload a big contract but when you're giving up by far the most talented player in a trade you have to get at least some quality in return. The Kings didn't get a quality prospect or even a #1 pick.
Petrie by all info appeared to be holding out for a quality deal for Bibby and it is still odd that this is what he ends up accepting. Gooden could have been had and is a lot better than Williams, has a reasonable salary and also comes off the books after next season.
Mikki Moore was signed for 3 seasons and for approx. $18 million. I don't think anyone else was beating down his door making him offers like that.
I also didn't include the Kings signing Abdur-Rahim to a 5 year contract after he failed a physical with the Nets because of knee problems.
Some of their moves in recent seasons are inconsistent with this Bibby trade.
If the Kings want cap room for 2009 than it wouldn't be that much of a problem to keep a better talent in Bibby since his salary comes off the cap after next season. He wouldn't hinder their desire for cap room in 2009.
I can understand making trades for cap space or to unload a big contract but when you're giving up by far the most talented player in a trade you have to get at least some quality in return. The Kings didn't get a quality prospect or even a #1 pick.
Petrie by all info appeared to be holding out for a quality deal for Bibby and it is still odd that this is what he ends up accepting. Gooden could have been had and is a lot better than Williams, has a reasonable salary and also comes off the books after next season.
Mikki Moore was signed for 3 seasons and for approx. $18 million. I don't think anyone else was beating down his door making him offers like that.
I also didn't include the Kings signing Abdur-Rahim to a 5 year contract after he failed a physical with the Nets because of knee problems.
Some of their moves in recent seasons are inconsistent with this Bibby trade.
World B ThAreee
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Re: The AWESOME Mike Bibby TO THE HAWKS Thread !
As much as I would've loved to have had Bibby on the Cavs, I don't think this is that big of a deal. The part that sucks is that ATL basically paid this price for him... Shannon Brown (likely bust, but jury is still out... kinda... he'd be the Shelden Williams of the trade), Damon Jones, and D. Marshall. Pretty sad. Either way, Bibby is not what he used to be. Last year we hoped (as suitors) that Bibby had an off year, but he is definitely not the player he used to be. Though that's still better than our current point guard, it's still not worth giving up Gooden and all our expirings (which obviously wasn't even good enough for Petrie).
I'm not a Ferry apologist, but I really think the chances of the Cavs being contenders long term go up the longer it takes him to make a deal. I'm sure he could've made many trades already that weren't in the best long term interest of the team, and I'm glad he hasn't pulled the trigger on them. I'd rather have a guy like Earl Watson and most of our tradeable commodities left over than Bibby and no flexibility. I just don't think Bibby is the same guy that dominated the WCF a few years ago. I could be wrong.
The saddest part is that ATL should have Deron Williams or Chris Paul anyway... imagine what it's like to be a Hawks fan.
As much as I would've loved to have had Bibby on the Cavs, I don't think this is that big of a deal. The part that sucks is that ATL basically paid this price for him... Shannon Brown (likely bust, but jury is still out... kinda... he'd be the Shelden Williams of the trade), Damon Jones, and D. Marshall. Pretty sad. Either way, Bibby is not what he used to be. Last year we hoped (as suitors) that Bibby had an off year, but he is definitely not the player he used to be. Though that's still better than our current point guard, it's still not worth giving up Gooden and all our expirings (which obviously wasn't even good enough for Petrie).
I'm not a Ferry apologist, but I really think the chances of the Cavs being contenders long term go up the longer it takes him to make a deal. I'm sure he could've made many trades already that weren't in the best long term interest of the team, and I'm glad he hasn't pulled the trigger on them. I'd rather have a guy like Earl Watson and most of our tradeable commodities left over than Bibby and no flexibility. I just don't think Bibby is the same guy that dominated the WCF a few years ago. I could be wrong.
The saddest part is that ATL should have Deron Williams or Chris Paul anyway... imagine what it's like to be a Hawks fan.
Re: The AWESOME Mike Bibby TO THE HAWKS Thread !
All I can say in conclusion of this as I walk off the Bibby battlefield is this:
After talking about using our expirings for '09 to make an even bigger trade or keeping our draft picks to find more guys like Daniel Gibson, Danny Ferry better, if he seriously wants to stay alive on this planet, better go out and hit a homerun in this draft and use the '09 expirings to land a SUPERSTAR. Not just a star, not just an All-Star (ok, maybe I'd be fine with "just an All-Star"), but a SUPERSTAR. And not just some superstar on the downside of his career like Shaq or Jason Kidd. A legit superstar that is in the prime of his career. I'm talking along the lines of Gilbert Arenas, Shawn Marion, Elton Brand, Andre Iguodala, Josh Howard, somebody like that.
Maybe Bibby wasn't gonna get us over the hump this year. But if it's 2010 and this team stays the way it is, and LeBron ends up leaving (and I seriously wouldn't blame him - he re-signed once already and if we can't help him out, then what do we expect?), Ferry will be almost exclusively responsible. I say "almost" because it was Paxson and Gund that let Boozer walk, and this team hasn't really recovered since. But we better land a bonafide heavyweight player with all these expirings that Ferry is hoarding or else I wouldn't blame some deranged Cleveland sports fan for killing Ferry for ruining this franchise TWICE.
All I can say in conclusion of this as I walk off the Bibby battlefield is this:
After talking about using our expirings for '09 to make an even bigger trade or keeping our draft picks to find more guys like Daniel Gibson, Danny Ferry better, if he seriously wants to stay alive on this planet, better go out and hit a homerun in this draft and use the '09 expirings to land a SUPERSTAR. Not just a star, not just an All-Star (ok, maybe I'd be fine with "just an All-Star"), but a SUPERSTAR. And not just some superstar on the downside of his career like Shaq or Jason Kidd. A legit superstar that is in the prime of his career. I'm talking along the lines of Gilbert Arenas, Shawn Marion, Elton Brand, Andre Iguodala, Josh Howard, somebody like that.
Maybe Bibby wasn't gonna get us over the hump this year. But if it's 2010 and this team stays the way it is, and LeBron ends up leaving (and I seriously wouldn't blame him - he re-signed once already and if we can't help him out, then what do we expect?), Ferry will be almost exclusively responsible. I say "almost" because it was Paxson and Gund that let Boozer walk, and this team hasn't really recovered since. But we better land a bonafide heavyweight player with all these expirings that Ferry is hoarding or else I wouldn't blame some deranged Cleveland sports fan for killing Ferry for ruining this franchise TWICE.
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Re: The AWESOME Mike Bibby TO THE HAWKS Thread !
Brand would be a better choice than iggy. Sign a PG with the MLE.
Brand would be a better choice than iggy. Sign a PG with the MLE.
Re: The AWESOME Mike Bibby TO THE HAWKS Thread !
That won't be easy, because we don't have the draft picks or young talent needed to reel in bigger fish from a re-building team. I suppose since we have so many expiring contracts perhaps we can put together a couple of deals... either bring in 2 - Bibby level players -or- trade one set of expirings for picks and then send those picks off with the other expirings.
I suppose we might also get lucky and develop our pick or some of our current young players in to something other teams might want ...
Something else to consider, though, is we need to re-sign Gibson and we may need to let some contracts expire if we don't want to go too far in to the luxury tax.
That won't be easy, because we don't have the draft picks or young talent needed to reel in bigger fish from a re-building team. I suppose since we have so many expiring contracts perhaps we can put together a couple of deals... either bring in 2 - Bibby level players -or- trade one set of expirings for picks and then send those picks off with the other expirings.
I suppose we might also get lucky and develop our pick or some of our current young players in to something other teams might want ...
Something else to consider, though, is we need to re-sign Gibson and we may need to let some contracts expire if we don't want to go too far in to the luxury tax.
TyGuy
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Re: The AWESOME Mike Bibby TO THE HAWKS Thread !
I dont get this fascination with iguodola? Plays a lot of minutes but doesnt score a ton of points. He was pretty ineffective playing off the ball when he had Iverson, certainly he would be playing off the ball a ton as a cav.
Someone that fits well with Bron is a guy who plays well off the ball, iguadola is a nice athlete and he is young but im not exactly pining to make him a cav because he needs the ball to be effective and he is a very streaky shooter.
I dont get this fascination with iguodola? Plays a lot of minutes but doesnt score a ton of points. He was pretty ineffective playing off the ball when he had Iverson, certainly he would be playing off the ball a ton as a cav.
Someone that fits well with Bron is a guy who plays well off the ball, iguadola is a nice athlete and he is young but im not exactly pining to make him a cav because he needs the ball to be effective and he is a very streaky shooter.
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Bump... I am still glad we have Mo instead.
bob2the2nd
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i hope you get a negative rep for bumping this :chuckles:
-KingofKings23-
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Dude can rain 3's though. I'm still happy we got Mo instead!
Man Called X
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No, this deserves a damn read. Every damn person on this forum should read this thread from the first page to the last. It's a part of RCF history.