The Kevin Stefanski: Two-Time Coach of the Year Thread

[CBBI]

Seeding is weird in the AFC this year due to parity and I don't necessarily think it means much. With the coaching job this year I truly think our season ends at the Chiefs or Bills in the playoffs with the likes of Carr, Wilson, Cousins, or Garoppolo. With a roster that, supposedly, is just a QB away from winning the big one. That's simply not good enough.

We have the talent to be a playoff team this year - I could easily point to the Steelers who have had QB play nearly as bad as ours, with a worse roster on offense (their o-line is nowhere near ours and their RBs are nowhere near ours). Strong defense but from a talent perspective we're right there with them. Yet they still won't finish with a losing record, have swept us, and have a shot at a wildcard next week.

We're 5th in penalties and 5th in penalized yards after leading the league in yards for most of the season. That's two straight seasons where we've done poorly in penalties under Stefanski. If we play the what-if game I'm guessing we win 2 more games if not for our penalties (Chiefs/Chargers for sure).

But I'm not doing that - this isn't a Baker vs. Stefanski thing for me. I think Baker is the bigger issue but Stefanski hasn't been very good himself, and I think he needs to be better if we're ever going to win the Super Bowl.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on how much Stefanski's coaching has negatively impacted things this season.

Let me put it another way.

If the Browns swapped out Stefanski and his staff for a staff that is universally considered better - for arguments sake let's say the Rams staff or the Bucs staff - I don't think the Browns record changes all that much because they'd still getting bottom of the barrel QB play and it's nearly impossible to overcome that. Maybe they win 1 more? But there's still virtually no chance of winning a playoff game with QB play this bad if they even get in at all.

Conversely, if the Browns kept the same coaching staff and same personnel and simply swapped Baker Mayfield out for a better QB, really any of the guys they could possibly acquire this offseason - Rodgers, Watson and Wilson they'd have 4 or 5 more wins - Carr, Cousins, Garoppolo they'd have at least 3 more wins and be competing for the No. 1 seed with a chance to make a much deeper playoff run. Not necessarily favorites to win the Super Bowl because they'd still be at a QB disadvantage against a couple of teams if they got a guy from the second group, but a much better chance still.

 

[Vee-Rex]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on how much Stefanski's coaching has negatively impacted things this season.

Let me put it another way.

If the Browns swapped out Stefanski and his staff for a staff that is universally considered better - for arguments sake let's say the Rams staff or the Bucs staff - I don't think the Browns record changes all that much because they'd still getting bottom of the barrel QB play and it's nearly impossible to overcome that. Maybe they win 1 more? But there's still virtually no chance of winning a playoff game with QB play this bad if they even get in at all.

Conversely, if the Browns kept the same coaching staff and same personnel and simply swapped Baker Mayfield out for a better QB, really any of the guys they could possibly acquire this offseason - Rodgers, Watson and Wilson they'd have 4 or 5 more wins - Carr, Cousins, Garoppolo they'd have at least 3 more wins and be competing for the No. 1 seed with a chance to make a much deeper playoff run. Not necessarily favorites to win the Super Bowl because they'd still be at a QB disadvantage against a couple of teams if they got a guy from the second group, but a much better chance still.

The way I see it? 70% Baker, 30% Stefanski as the reason for our offensive ineptitude. So yes, we probably win more games if upgraded at QB vs. coaching, I was never arguing otherwise. But let's say we upgrade and get someone like Wilson, Watson, or Rodgers next year. The expectations are Super Bowl or bust. There are no more excuses - no more blaming the QB for every issue on offense. No more blaming the QB if we don't win the Super Bowl. The coaching has to be better than it has been this year.

That's my entire point - not that Stefanski should be more at blame than Baker, but that he'll need to do better if the criteria we're measuring by is whether or not we're raising the Lombardi trophy. If we truly are a Russell Wilson away then I'd expect us to win at least 12 games next year, probably 13 or 14. No more BS.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I have a lot of issues making this an either/or debate about Baker and Stefanski. It's overly simplistic.

The team lost the guy who should have been the focal point of the passing offense - OBJ. Was he truly good enough to be an X receiver and the focal point of the Browns passing attack? Debatable, but losing him and replacing him with DPJ cost the team without a doubt.

Additionally, everyone would agree offensive tackle is the second most critical position on offense to QB. Look at the quality of play the Browns received at both tackle positions.

The human element of the players surrounding Baker and the holes Stefanski tried to cover in various ways deserves a huge piece of the fault pie.

 

[PIP]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on how much Stefanski's coaching has negatively impacted things this season.

Let me put it another way.

If the Browns swapped out Stefanski and his staff for a staff that is universally considered better - for arguments sake let's say the Rams staff or the Bucs staff - I don't think the Browns record changes all that much because they'd still getting bottom of the barrel QB play and it's nearly impossible to overcome that. Maybe they win 1 more? But there's still virtually no chance of winning a playoff game with QB play this bad if they even get in at all.

Conversely, if the Browns kept the same coaching staff and same personnel and simply swapped Baker Mayfield out for a better QB, really any of the guys they could possibly acquire this offseason - Rodgers, Watson and Wilson they'd have 4 or 5 more wins - Carr, Cousins, Garoppolo they'd have at least 3 more wins and be competing for the No. 1 seed with a chance to make a much deeper playoff run. Not necessarily favorites to win the Super Bowl because they'd still be at a QB disadvantage against a couple of teams if they got a guy from the second group, but a much better chance still.

I dunno. McVay did manage to get to the super bowl with Goff… And somehow managed to get Kupp roughly 100 catches and 1000 yards multiple seasons before Stafford….

Now adding Stafford you can see that offense take another step.

I do agree that they perform better with any other competent QB… Maybe even the one on our bench the last several weeks could have performed better than Baker…

Coach took a step back as well. Not just from an X/O standpoint….

 

[Vee-Rex]

I have a lot of issues making this an either/or debate about Baker and Stefanski. It's overly simplistic.

The team lost the guy who should have been the focal point of the passing offense - OBJ. Was he truly good enough to be an X receiver and the focal point of the Browns passing attack? Debatable, but losing him and replacing him with DPJ cost the team without a doubt.

Additionally, everyone would agree offensive tackle is the second most critical position on offense to QB. Look at the quality of play the Browns received at both tackle positions.

The human element of the players surrounding Baker and the holes Stefanski tried to cover in various ways deserves a huge piece of the fault pie.

I agree. My "real" percentage would be more like ~35% Baker, ~15% Stefanski, 10% receivers, ~10% injuries, ~10% trash luck (such as opps hitting 96% of their FGs against us which is ridiculous, such as the COVID week right before a pivotal game and not benefiting much from the NFL's adjusted policies), terrible refereeing, terrible tackle play, terrible special teams, and so on.

For the sake of the Baker vs. Stefanski discussion I went 70>30 but I really don't like putting all the blame on one or two entities, and certainly don't believe that we should look at it as an either/or kind of thing.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I agree. My "real" percentage would be more like ~35% Baker, ~15% Stefanski, 10% receivers, ~10% injuries, ~10% trash luck (such as opps hitting 96% of their FGs against us which is ridiculous, such as the COVID week right before a pivotal game and not benefiting much from the NFL's adjusted policies), terrible refereeing, terrible tackle play, terrible special teams, and so on.

For the sake of the Baker vs. Stefanski discussion I went 70>30 but I really don't like putting all the blame on one or two entities, and certainly don't believe that we should look at it as an either/or kind of thing.

I started feeling nervous in week one. The Browns had some luck on their side in 2020, and more concretely they were playing an easy schedule.

After the first Chiefs game, I didn't really see improvement in Baker or the attention to detail from players. They were pretty much the same team, just less lucky and playing better opponents.

I believe the defense actually improved as the season went on, but the offense regressed to terrifying degrees.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

I have a lot of issues making this an either/or debate about Baker and Stefanski. It's overly simplistic.

The team lost the guy who should have been the focal point of the passing offense - OBJ. Was he truly good enough to be an X receiver and the focal point of the Browns passing attack? Debatable, but losing him and replacing him with DPJ cost the team without a doubt.

Additionally, everyone would agree offensive tackle is the second most critical position on offense to QB. Look at the quality of play the Browns received at both tackle positions.

The human element of the players surrounding Baker and the holes Stefanski tried to cover in various ways deserves a huge piece of the fault pie.

Yeah, I think a lowkey underrated thing from this year is that Jed Wills has been pretty awful and lazy, to the point where I'm starting to question what his future is here.

Hudson was obviously going to be awful, 4th round rookie tackle is a recipe for disaster, but I'd expect 2nd year top 10 picks to be much better than Wills was this year.

And while I don't think there is much of a difference between DPJ and OBJ as far as an impact level right now, I do think teams respected OBJ more than DPJ and that allowed the offense more flow. Perhaps even just the thought of him allowed Stefanski to think of how to devise a gameplan based on teams wanting to limit OBJ.

I don't know, but I'd expect the Browns to do a 2021 offseason like blow up to the offensive skill positions. Only guys I'd keep are the RBs, Bryant, Njoku and maybe Schwartz and DPJ. The rest need to be improved upon drastically.

That Hooper contract has become a noose around the neck of the Browns too. He's beyond awful.

 

[Kiddo]

I feel like until last night Stefanski was designing his game plan with Baker's injuries in mind to protect him. Last night it felt like Stefanski called the game how he wanted without taking Baker's injuries in consideration. Baker clearly showed he's not our answer at QB.

 

[Benway]

I think the coach got exactly what he wanted.

 

[2 For The Brew]

I have a lot of issues making this an either/or debate about Baker and Stefanski. It's overly simplistic.

The team lost the guy who should have been the focal point of the passing offense - OBJ. Was he truly good enough to be an X receiver and the focal point of the Browns passing attack? Debatable, but losing him and replacing him with DPJ cost the team without a doubt.

Additionally, everyone would agree offensive tackle is the second most critical position on offense to QB. Look at the quality of play the Browns received at both tackle positions.

The human element of the players surrounding Baker and the holes Stefanski tried to cover in various ways deserves a huge piece of the fault pie.

OBJ gave Cleveland fans more this season than Pangos has, but that’s only because he helped the Rams win and that was negated by the Chiefs choking in Cincinnati.

Hooper screwed up twice early and once late last night. Clowney decided if Myles could wield a helmet then he could throw a shoe. Other before-the-snap penalties, punter stubbing his toe, lackadaisical tackling, TJ Watt v Hudson alone far too often - it was a complete and utter shitshow, and yet we were still in it in the fourth quarter only because Ben is past it.

Season was just snakebit. Injuries, Covid, a horrible call in LA, the OBJ fiasco, heartbreaking losses - nothing went right. And yet - we added Newsome and JOK to a significant number of talented players on the team.

As awful as Baker played this year, if we exchange DPJ with JaMarr Chase how much difference would that have made? Baker has a gun but we have no long passing game because our WRs stink, our pass blocking deteriorated due to injury and Baker himself was injured and took hits to his confidence.

Fortunately Berry is a really smart guy so I expect he’ll calmly review what’s happened this season, balance that against past experiences and future potential, and then evaluate the team. Baker and Kevin are the two most important people of course but I I agree that there are a lot of other factors to consider. Above all - no need to panic, I’m still bullish on this team going forward.

 

[PIP]

 

[bob2the2nd]

OBJ gave Cleveland fans more this season than Pangos has, but that’s only because he helped the Rams win and that was negated by the Chiefs choking in Cincinnati.

Hooper screwed up twice early and once late last night. Clowney decided if Myles could wield a helmet then he could throw a shoe. Other before-the-snap penalties, punter stubbing his toe, lackadaisical tackling, TJ Watt v Hudson alone far too often - it was a complete and utter shitshow, and yet we were still in it in the fourth quarter only because Ben is past it.

Season was just snakebit. Injuries, Covid, a horrible call in LA, the OBJ fiasco, heartbreaking losses - nothing went right. And yet - we added Newsome and JOK to a significant number of talented players on the team.

As awful as Baker played this year, if we exchange DPJ with JaMarr Chase how much difference would that have made? Baker has a gun but we have no long passing game because our WRs stink, our pass blocking deteriorated due to injury and Baker himself was injured and took hits to his confidence.

Fortunately Berry is a really smart guy so I expect he’ll calmly review what’s happened this season, balance that against past experiences and future potential, and then evaluate the team. Baker and Kevin are the two most important people of course but I I agree that there are a lot of other factors to consider. Above all - no need to panic, I’m still bullish on this team going forward.

My big worry about this FO is they dont seem to have any feel for the TE/WR position. Hopefully its just because they have been tryign to fill other holes but here is what we have seen from them

WR
DPJ as a 6th round pick. Great value, but probably nothing more than a number 3 WR, maybe he can become a number 2 over the years. By far and away the best of the other 6 WR/TE moves.
Schwartz as a 3rd round pick. I would be shocked if he makes the team next year. Bad hands, bad routes, on a team in massive need of WR help he struggles to get on the field.
Jamarcus Bradley Undrafted free agent. Contributes more than Schwartz but thats about all you can say. Next year will be fighting for a roster spot coming into camp
Resigned Higgins. Higgins wanted to stay and they reluctantly gave him a 1 year contract. I would be shocked if he comes back

TE:
Huge contract to Hooper, made him the top paid TE for a couple of weeks, still is top 5. Massive overpay to a grossly overrated TE. Should be cut after this year
Resigned njoku to a 1 year contract, best pass catching TE on the team. Hopefully they can bring him back.
Drafted Harrison Bryant in the 4th round. Probably not a starting TE, but is good depth

Overall this is miserable and has very much contributed to the fact that this team has struggled this year. Chances are Landry isnt come back either which leaves this team with another WR hole.



Also, they need to address the kicker position. They have gone through... 5(?) kickers in the last 2 years and this year it has cost them at least 2 if not 3 games.

 

[CBBI]

My big worry about this FO is they dont seem to have any feel for the TE/WR position. Hopefully its just because they have been tryign to fill other holes but here is what we have seen from them

WR
DPJ as a 6th round pick. Great value, but probably nothing more than a number 3 WR, maybe he can become a number 2 over the years. By far and away the best of the other 6 WR/TE moves.
Schwartz as a 3rd round pick. I would be shocked if he makes the team next year. Bad hands, bad routes, on a team in massive need of WR help he struggles to get on the field.
Jamarcus Bradley Undrafted free agent. Contributes more than Schwartz but thats about all you can say. Next year will be fighting for a roster spot coming into camp
Resigned Higgins. Higgins wanted to stay and they reluctantly gave him a 1 year contract. I would be shocked if he comes back

Obviously this is ignoring the fact that DePodesta and Berry inherited two of the top 10 highest paid WRs in football (at the time) both theoretically still very much in the prime of their careers.

You don't really invest high draft picks or significant free agency dollars into a position that already has two of the highest paid players at that position signed to long-term contracts.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

My big worry about this FO is they dont seem to have any feel for the TE/WR position. Hopefully its just because they have been tryign to fill other holes but here is what we have seen from them

WR
DPJ as a 6th round pick. Great value, but probably nothing more than a number 3 WR, maybe he can become a number 2 over the years. By far and away the best of the other 6 WR/TE moves.
Schwartz as a 3rd round pick. I would be shocked if he makes the team next year. Bad hands, bad routes, on a team in massive need of WR help he struggles to get on the field.
Jamarcus Bradley Undrafted free agent. Contributes more than Schwartz but thats about all you can say. Next year will be fighting for a roster spot coming into camp
Resigned Higgins. Higgins wanted to stay and they reluctantly gave him a 1 year contract. I would be shocked if he comes back

I mean, when have they had the resources and not glaring holes to address this issue? When should the Browns have gone WR in the early rounds or FA? When they needed to solve the entire defense? When they had the 5th most salary dedicated to WR in the NFL?

The Browns haven't had a chance to really make any changes at WR due to money and draft capital needing to go elsewhere.

TE:
Huge contract to Hooper, made him the top paid TE for a couple of weeks, still is top 5. Massive overpay to a grossly overrated TE. Should be cut after this year
Resigned njoku to a 1 year contract, best pass catching TE on the team. Hopefully they can bring him back.
Drafted Harrison Bryant in the 4th round. Probably not a starting TE, but is good depth

Seems like they've done fine here, other than the Hooper contract.

Bryant, IMO, is better than you think. He's maybe their best pass catcher.

Overall this is miserable and has very much contributed to the fact that this team has struggled this year. Chances are Landry isnt come back either which leaves this team with another WR hole.

WR was miserable due to no meaningful draft investments and TE has been mostly fine.

Also, they need to address the kicker position. They have gone through... 5(?) kickers in the last 2 years and this year it has cost them at least 2 if not 3 games.

This is a highly overrated point that many Browns fans make when their kicking game has mostly been fine, especially when compared to the rest of the NFL.

 

[2 For The Brew]

My big worry about this FO is they dont seem to have any feel for the TE/WR position. Hopefully its just because they have been tryign to fill other holes but here is what we have seen from them

WR
DPJ as a 6th round pick. Great value, but probably nothing more than a number 3 WR, maybe he can become a number 2 over the years. By far and away the best of the other 6 WR/TE moves.
Schwartz as a 3rd round pick. I would be shocked if he makes the team next year. Bad hands, bad routes, on a team in massive need of WR help he struggles to get on the field.
Jamarcus Bradley Undrafted free agent. Contributes more than Schwartz but thats about all you can say. Next year will be fighting for a roster spot coming into camp
Resigned Higgins. Higgins wanted to stay and they reluctantly gave him a 1 year contract. I would be shocked if he comes back

TE:
Huge contract to Hooper, made him the top paid TE for a couple of weeks, still is top 5. Massive overpay to a grossly overrated TE. Should be cut after this year
Resigned njoku to a 1 year contract, best pass catching TE on the team. Hopefully they can bring him back.
Drafted Harrison Bryant in the 4th round. Probably not a starting TE, but is good depth

Overall this is miserable and has very much contributed to the fact that this team has struggled this year. Chances are Landry isnt come back either which leaves this team with another WR hole.



Also, they need to address the kicker position. They have gone through... 5(?) kickers in the last 2 years and this year it has cost them at least 2 if not 3 games.

You left out OBJ who was not signed by the current regime.

They've drafted well in other areas. I suspect they'll use a relatively high pick on a WR but we'll see.