Union Kills the Twinkie

[Maximus]

Are people arguing against the right to unionize? Seriously???

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No. Ive seen some people arguing for an individuals right to work and not to unuionize....

 

[Tlyons]

Hmmm... Another issue that divides America right down the middle.

 

[The Voice]

one big thing to also mention is that Little Debbie doesnt have a labor union up their ass, and can operate their business to their liking.

One big thing to also mention is Little Debbie had a better product line.

 

[Cavsfan1985]

Moving to Utah, I will have to say it is awsome to not have unions. It is such a business friendly state, and not having unions is a huge reason why. Anyone who is arguing for unions, I ask you this? Do you work in a union? Have you ever lived outside the Midwest, where unions ar everyday life? Do you have a college degree?

My wife is a teacher, I agree with teacher union as the state likes to uses education as the first place to cut, so I think there is value in PROFESSIONAL UNIONS! Not labor unions.

 

[Tornicade]

Moving to Utah, I will have to say it is awsome to not have unions. It is such a business friendly state, and not having unions is a huge reason why. Anyone who is arguing for unions, I ask you this? Do you work in a union? Have you ever lived outside the Midwest, where unions ar everyday life? Do you have a college degree?

My wife is a teacher, I agree with teacher union as the state likes to uses education as the first place to cut, so I think there is value in PROFESSIONAL UNIONS! Not labor unions.

oh now unions are only for college graduates?

union free utah .. what a utopia. so union free we have this .. http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/02/utah_newest_front_in_gop_battle_against_unions.php

Utah is already a right to work state, which means unions have pretty limited role in government. But the labor organizations still get a seat at the table to discuss pay, benefits and working conditions.

The Utah bill has some things in common with a broader series of measures currently making their way through the Arizona legislature and believed to be the most sweeping in the nation. Both affect public unions at the city, county and state levels. And neither provides an exemption for public safety unions like for police and firefighters.
King said the Utah bill has a good chance of passing since Republicans have dominant control over both the state House and Senate. But he said there’s also the possibility that some of the state’s moderate Republicans will join their Democratic colleagues to block the measure.
King hopes the moderates will recognize that governments in the state already have a lot of power when it comes to dealing with workers.
“There’s really no need for this,” he said. “It’s just sort of piling on.”


looks like the utah government that is already a "right to work " state has decided that employees should legally have no right of expectations towards work conditions and safety. . so much for free enterpise.

Unions represent the only means individual workers have to protect themselves.

 

[Maximus]

One big thing to also mention is Little Debbie had a better product line.

..and their prices are half of Hostess products.

 

[KI4MVP]

^^ That's exactly the point people want to ignore when they say "blame management for not adapting to the time". How can the adapt to an increasingly price conscious times when unions demand things like redundant workers, redundant fuel costs, etc.

 

[KI4MVP]

Can anyone explain to me how the top management can do such a poor job and yet still look to receive 1.75 million in incentive bonuses while they fire 18,000 employees? Can anyone explain to me how they went into bankruptcy and came out with even more debt? Or why it was cool for them to stop paying into pensions?

I've been meaning to get back to this post

1 - the bonuses are meant to keep the executives there while the company is liquidated. If they leave ahead of time, it only makes matters worse. The 4 top executives had previously cut their own salary to just $1/year, something nobody complaining about the $1.75 million bothers to mention. Clearly they weren't going to stick around at that salary while the company is liquidated.

2 - 1.75 million divided by 18,500 employees works out to less than 5 cents/hour. The companies problems were far more substantial than 5 cents/hour.

3 - they didn't fire anyone, they went out of business.

 

[Shakalu M.D.]

I'm not saying the union isn't at fault here. I just think there's more to the story than a greedy union.

Incidentally the job I'm going after right now is unionized. It's not a labor union, I'd basically be the media equipment and tech guy for a library system (which is technically a government job).

Now with this application I noticed something that surprised me. Drug test? No problem, not at all surprised. Background check, same deal. Physical? Fine, they'd be handling my insurance, I get that. The thing that surprised me was a nicotine usage test. Now I don't smoke or anything, it's not going to be an issue. I was just surprised to see them testing for it.

 

[KI4MVP]

Apparently the wrong union is being blamed. The bakers union is opposed to the teamsters union causing this idiotic situation that is even worse that was stated earlier in the thread

Union-imposed work rules stopped drivers from helping to load their trucks. A separate worker, arriving at the store in a separate vehicle, had to be employed to shift goods from a storage area to a retailer's shelf. Wonder Bread and Twinkies couldn't ride on the same truck.

Hostess has spent eight of the past 11 years in bankruptcy. As the company explained to its latest judge, the Hostess brands "have not been able to profit from many of their existing delivery stops and have been unable to enter potentially profitable markets, such as dollar stores, vending services and movie theaters."

If Hostess were able to rationalize or outsource delivery to serve these customers, ready to go are "new products based on its best-selling cake items that have a longer shelf-life and can withstand freezing en route to customers over longer transportation hauls."

Under pressure on Monday from Judge Robert Drain to back down from their strike aimed at forcing the company to liquidate, the bakers themselves pointed to "what everyone in the baking industry knew: Hostess's production costs were neither excessive nor out of line with the market but its distribution costs were—to the tune of between $80 million and $130 million annually."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324352004578130912150512612.html

WHat's the real problem? $1.75 million in bonuses, or $80 to $130 million in inflated distribution costs?

 

[Tornicade]

Apparently the wrong union is being blamed. The bakers union is opposed to the teamsters union causing this idiotic situation that is even worse that was stated earlier in the thread



http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324352004578130912150512612.html

WHat's the real problem? $1.75 million in bonuses, or $80 to $130 million in inflated distribution costs?

Which was more of a product of the plants Hostess chose to keep open as opposed to the ones they closed. The bakers union are the first ones to pont out how management kept open under utilized plants and closed down key distribution facillities in their reorganization.

Ultimately the management negotiated the current guidelines and never asked the union to drop those provisions from the contract.regardless the Bakers Union who voted to strike had nothing to do with these provisions. and dont forget both wonder and hostess were both profitable before the acquisition.

yet 10 years later those are the provision that killed the company? seems another example of mismanagement.

 

[KI4MVP]

how do you know they didn't ask? It seems they in fact did. You pointed out the problem yourself. They bought companies, those companies had existing collective bargaining agreements. The net result of the 372 separate agreements resulted in substantial inefficiencies. They asked the bankruptcy court to toss out those agreements and were denied. The bakers union is willing to let the company be liquidated, which does invalidate those agreements, under the hope a new buyer will be able to fix the distribution problems that Hostess currently can't fix.

 

[Maximus]

never asked the union to drop those provisions from the contract.

Now you are just lying...

 

[Cavsfan1985]

oh now unions are only for college graduates?

union free utah .. what a utopia. so union free we have this .. http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/02/utah_newest_front_in_gop_battle_against_unions.php

Utah is already a right to work state, which means unions have pretty limited role in government. But the labor organizations still get a seat at the table to discuss pay, benefits and working conditions.

The Utah bill has some things in common with a broader series of measures currently making their way through the Arizona legislature and believed to be the most sweeping in the nation. Both affect public unions at the city, county and state levels. And neither provides an exemption for public safety unions like for police and firefighters.
King said the Utah bill has a good chance of passing since Republicans have dominant control over both the state House and Senate. But he said there’s also the possibility that some of the state’s moderate Republicans will join their Democratic colleagues to block the measure.
King hopes the moderates will recognize that governments in the state already have a lot of power when it comes to dealing with workers.
“There’s really no need for this,” he said. “It’s just sort of piling on.”


looks like the utah government that is already a "right to work " state has decided that employees should legally have no right of expectations towards work conditions and safety. . so much for free enterpise.

Unions represent the only means individual workers have to protect themselves.

I never said they were for college graduates, read the whole post! i said trades and profestional jobs need them. I also argued, a state like Utah has very little union support, they also are one for the most profitable and business friendly states in the US. There is a huge correlation between states being union, and being business friendly.

Does the unskilled labor fee in Utah makes as much as someone in Ohio. NO. But this has forced people in Utah to get a college degree, go in to the trades to get better paying jobs. A state with more educated, and skilled work force, brings in better paying jobs, and a better business environment.

Also, living in Utah, I have noticed people don't have the same level of entitlement that people in Michigan and Ohio have. Could this be that we are a very Red / Repbulican State?

Utah was one of the only states to support not extending the unempoyment time frame. It was awsome to see a governor talk about how people need to hold themself responsible for the decisions they make, and if you can't get a job in the time frame you are on unemployment, then tough luck. Again, this may sound rough, but the state is very fiscally responsible.

My wife is a teacher, I wish the union had more power to get her more money, Utah is in the bottom 5 of money spent per kid. While I disagree with this, I would still rather have a well run state, that encourages business to come here.

 

[Tornicade]

Now you are just lying...

they asked this time around and the Teamsters Union conceded. stands to reason they could of negotiated it out previously or even when they first made the wonder acquisition if they had a solid restructuring plan. The haphazard nature of their plant closings and the very poor infrastructure IBC and then Hostess went forward with out of the first bankruptcy was very shaky indeed.

three of the provisions the Tamsters voted on and passed included relaxing rules regarding wonder/ Hostess routes. Management also was the one that mostly pulled dolly madison from these routes as well.

The union did not have an thing to do with production or making the proper adjustment to the wonder route regardless resulting in overstocking of the shelves for a high priced product that no one wanted to buy.

Yabicuma out of los angelas whom the teamsters supported to replace ripplewood in the 1st bankruptcy certainly wouldnt of proceeded with such and arrangement.

there was no rhyme or reason to the 21 plus plant shutdowns or previous 18,000 job layoffs IBC/Hostess put into effect during the initial bankruptcy.

Wonder Bread was acquired in 1995. Hostess had its own bread line with homepride. in 2007 hostess shut down its entire Southern California operations only to renter the market in 2009 at a great deal of cost.

Contiental also did not own the wonder bread license in Mexico or Canada.

in 1996 Bimbo moved into the south california market by purchasing pride bakeries the going nationwide in 2008.

IBC bought hostess and wonder in 1995. the company had reported 16 million in losses the year before.

372 collective bargaining agreements is alot to contend with. I havent seen anyone confirm that this hostess/wonder provision wasnt already there when IBC purchased continental bakeries.


IBC also reformulated the wonder bread despite failing multiple taste test and experienced quite a sales drop before changing it back with no fanfare in 2004.

the management mistakes are endless. The company has absorbed over 18 unions with over 372 collective bargaining agreements.

Hostess could of took care of all this stuff in 2009 nine when the union made major concessions to the toon of 110 million and thousands of lost jobs for a brand that had already seen massive layoffs under ralston purina.

this was a company that needed direction and leadership and instead got a finance firm and hedge funds.

but its okay they can goto work for bimbo for no benefits. a 9% pay raise and the opportunity to lose a finger and be disqualified for disability because the employerr refused to report anything happened.