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Isaac 3 & D Okoro - A Two Way Playing Basketball Savant

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Who is Isaac Okoro's Favorite Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Emperor?

  • Arcadius (if one does not count Constantine as first)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Justinian the Great

    Votes: 9 15.8%

  • Zeno

    Votes: 2 3.5%

  • Heraclius

    Votes: 3 5.3%

  • Basil II, the Bulgar Slayer

    Votes: 6 10.5%

  • Nikephoros II Phokas, the Pale Death of the Saracens

    Votes: 7 12.3%

  • Alexios I Komnenos

    Votes: 4 7.0%

  • John II, the Beautiful Komnenos

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Constantine XI

    Votes: 4 7.0%

  • Jim I Chones, the Magnificent

    Votes: 26 45.6%
  • Total voters
    57
As I have said several times, he is a 3/D wing. He doesn't have guard skills. If he was 3 inches taller and add 2 inches in length, Cavs fans would be pleased. I don't see him being a starter in the NBA.
 
RchfldCavRaised said:
I'll admit/concede that. re: projections

And I don't have the numbers to support what I project, and don't believe college percentages paint a accurate picture to what can be projected at the next level. There are so many variables not being considered when you look at college production.
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he shows flashes of everything you're talking about already.
This is a good season for him to take his lumps guarding the best perimeter scorers in the NBA and picking his spots on offense. He isn't hurting the team while he's on the floor and he can get used to how fast the pace of play is at the NBA level.
Next year I'm going to want to see his jumper going up and hitting the target with some consistency, and I'm going to want to see him handle more, get in more pnr action as the handler, etc.. Even with just a catch and shoot jumper, he will be a solid NBA starting level wing.
Okoro is not as far off as people think. It will be shocking for some when he levels up several notches.
 
RchfldCavRaised said:
@daddywags

I believe Okoro is a better playmaker than he's shown while playing out of position as a 3-D SF who has been 4th at best in the lineup's pecking order

Watch this guy... watch the first play on this tape against Mississippi State.


These are just clips but if you search you can find full-game tapes for his freshman year under Bruce Pearl.

He has been playing out of position this whole season and he's such a smart player on both ends of the floor that he's taken a back seat to fill the gaps/plug the holes in our offense. His offensive game at Auburn reminds me ALOT of Bradley Beal at Gainesville with a little less of a reliable jumper. His defensive game is better than Beal's and I just wish he had the opportunity to show his game on the Tourney level.

If you use the 2k translation for what I'm saying... he's a current 74 with a ceiling of 85-87 as a SF prospect, but he's a current 76 with a 88-92 ceiling as a SG prospect. The minute we move him over to SG/SF instead of SF/SG and bump him up in the pecking order of initiating offense, we'll see more of his playmaking skills, rebounding and scoring ratings unlock.

He's better than he's shown and part of what's holding him back is his own IQ and adjusting his game to compliment Sexland better
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He's also being guarded by smaller, less athletic players in these clips.

That is always the calculus with prospects. If they are not more outlying producers against lesser competition, the likelihood they exceed that expectation in the NBA is just so small.

It is not to say that he doesn't have any chance, it is just to say that he is going to need a lot of things go right, in addition to more qualitative scouting being excellent.

I think where teams tended to miss on Okoro is that the qualitative scouting was just good......but teams like the Cavs talked themselves in to him because of his attitude, work ethic, etc.

Playing out of position hasn't helped but he just generally lacks offensive skill against NBA players......and I'm not sure he is refined enough with the ball to realistically climb out of that hole.

I would suspect he's a long tenured NBA player, merely from his defense and character but maybe not getting one of the best 5-10 players from a draft, when you are picking #5 is a really bad miss rebuild wise. I hope Isaac really vaults forward but he's just so limited offensively, that I have a hard time seeing him as true plus overall because he's probably just not big enough to provide the type of defensive value needed to offset it.
 
Futuredome said:
No, I meant I don't see him developing into a NBA starter. The skills just aren't there. He is a pieces and parts bench guy.
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He's already an NBA starter. In fact, he's started every game of his career so far.
 
He's just immature offensively. He is a good soldier and does what they ask of him guard the best guy.

His best plays are routinely with the game on the line. He's hit 3's to keep us in the game multiple times. He got the chasedown and cut on the other end to win. People complain about rebounds, but he has gotten key ones down the stretch on multiple occasions. He is deferential, probably to a fault, but we have seen with his dunks and cutting, as well as some excellent finishes lately, that when he has a bit of confidence he can be a beast.

I think he never ends up as a number 1 because he won't call his own number that way, but I could see him evolving into a LNJ swingman who shuts guys down and gets steals, finishes opportunistically shooting 6-7 3's a game.
 
Kelsey Russo has a column on Okoro in The Athletic.

“Defensively, he has a better understanding of NBA sets and what NBA basketball looks like, understanding players’ tendencies, all those things he’s taken positive steps in,” head coach J.B. Bickerstaff said. “And he’s getting more comfortable on the offensive end of the floor as well. He’s being more aggressive, he’s attacking more, he’s looking to take his shots when they’re available. I think he’s progressing, definitely.”

I noticed JBB didn't say he's playing better defense and getting more stops and turnovers. He said Okoro "has a better understanding of NBA sets and...understanding players' tendencies". On offense, he's "getting more comfortable".

Better understanding and feeling more comfortable. Nothing about playing better.

While his DRPM is -1.30, (414th in the league,) individual defensive statistics don’t always paint the full picture, as outside factors of who is on the floor alongside a player make a difference....Instead, the coaching staff relies more on the eye test to assess his defensive impact.

So the stats say he's not a good defender but the coaching staff's eyeballs say he's better than the stats suggest.

Overall, both Bickerstaff and Bucker noted they are pleased with Okoro’s defensive presence on the floor throughout the first half.

“He has it,” Buckner said. “He has a natural instinct of just being able to guard people on that end. He came from a background (that) you didn’t play unless you play defense, and it bodes well for him in the NBA so far. I mean, it’s only, the experience is what he needs, and he’ll become even better on the defensive end of the floor. But we can’t really teach him much more, to be honest with you, as far as individual defense."

Glad to hear they're happy with his defensive "presence". Personally, I'd like to see more blocks, steals, forced misses, and rebounds, but I guess we'll have to settle for "presence" and the comfort of knowing he's understanding NBA sets better than he did in December.

JBB preaches patience.

“You got to continue to show that you believe in them,” Bickerstaff said. “And you got to continue to give them opportunities to be successful. You look around, and in my 18 years, there’s been maybe three or four guys who come in in their rookie years, and then just (they are) what they are three or five years in. For most of the guys who come into this league, it takes them time."
 
Wham with the Right Hand said:
Kelsey Russo has a column on Okoro in The Athletic.

“Defensively, he has a better understanding of NBA sets and what NBA basketball looks like, understanding players’ tendencies, all those things he’s taken positive steps in,” head coach J.B. Bickerstaff said. “And he’s getting more comfortable on the offensive end of the floor as well. He’s being more aggressive, he’s attacking more, he’s looking to take his shots when they’re available. I think he’s progressing, definitely.”

I noticed JBB didn't say he's playing better defense and getting more stops and turnovers. He said Okoro "has a better understanding of NBA sets and...understanding players' tendencies". On offense, he's "getting more comfortable".

Better understanding and feeling more comfortable. Nothing about playing better.

While his DRPM is -1.30, (414th in the league,) individual defensive statistics don’t always paint the full picture, as outside factors of who is on the floor alongside a player make a difference....Instead, the coaching staff relies more on the eye test to assess his defensive impact.

So the stats say he's not a good defender but the coaching staff's eyeballs say he's better than the stats suggest.

Overall, both Bickerstaff and Bucker noted they are pleased with Okoro’s defensive presence on the floor throughout the first half.

“He has it,” Buckner said. “He has a natural instinct of just being able to guard people on that end. He came from a background (that) you didn’t play unless you play defense, and it bodes well for him in the NBA so far. I mean, it’s only, the experience is what he needs, and he’ll become even better on the defensive end of the floor. But we can’t really teach him much more, to be honest with you, as far as individual defense."

Glad to hear they're happy with his defensive "presence". Personally, I'd like to see more blocks, steals, forced misses, and rebounds, but I guess we'll have to settle for "presence" and the comfort of knowing he's understanding NBA sets better than he did in December.

JBB preaches patience.

“You got to continue to show that you believe in them,” Bickerstaff said. “And you got to continue to give them opportunities to be successful. You look around, and in my 18 years, there’s been maybe three or four guys who come in in their rookie years, and then just (they are) what they are three or five years in. For most of the guys who come into this league, it takes them time."
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I mean I’m not sure what people are expecting here....he has guarded multiple mvp candidates multiple times and is constantly stuck on the best player on the other team in the best league in the world at 19 years old......advanced analytics are an amazing tool but they aren’t the end all-be all people bill them to be.

EG: you can be a 40% three point shooter if you take 20 threes in a season and make 5, but obviously your not a great shooter if you only took 20 threes in 82 games(or you have the worst coach in the history of basketball).

correlating that too defense, you can be a great plus minus defender if you play 5 mins a game but lock up the 3rd unit, doesn’t make you a great defender but the numbers say you are. Point is, that there has never been a player in NBA history that has stepped in and been an incredible defender from day 1, guys need games and reps against the best to be able to compete with the best.

Issac is doing fine on defense even though analytics say he isn’t. He needs to shoot threes in NBA games to become a good shooter, that will take many games and years for him to learn. He needs to defend the best players regularly to become a good defender against said players.

/rant

Eat that ass: if you watch the games and don’t think Isaac is already a better player now than when the season started than we are watching two different sports.
 
I guess I was hoping for something more positive from the coaches than "He's learning, getting more comfortable, has good instincts, will get better, just needs more experience."

The column did say they are working daily with him on his shooting mechanics.
 
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