Z Version 2.0

[Rimage]

Nets/Vince Carter fans would disagee...

They hate his ass with a passion... He plays dirty, (but not in a John Stockon Way)

He is recognized around the league as one of it's most physical players.. Ironically enough, he's a permimeter player..

Did you not watch the finals ? Rip hamilton bitched and moaned the entire time..

Did you not watch him and Ray Allen go at it in the playoffs ?

Nobody wants to play that guy...

I know what he does, but "enforcer" is all wrong. More like, annoyance or pest. He doesn't overpower or intimidate other guys with physical presence, he just plays them tight and draws fouls, or commits fouls when the refs aren't looking. If anything, he is a cerebral player who knows how get a superstar angry and off his game by messing with his head.

He isn't an enforcer though, come on.

There is a difference between being physical and having a physical presense. Earl Boykins can be physical, but doesn't have a physical presense.

 

[PIP]

Well, that's okay if you don't agree.. I can live that. Sure, due to his size, he might not be a true Enforcer.

But i've watched him take players out physically, I've watched him cheap shot players, thus taking them out of their games mentally.

I've watched him personally under cut players twisting ankles... So IMO he is an enforcer.. A milder Artest version at the SF..

In no way is he a Mahorn/Laimbeer enforcer... But IMO an enforcer nonetheless..

 

[Rimage]

Well, that's okay if you don't agree.. I can live that. Sure, due to his size, he might not be a true Enforcer.

But i've watched him take players out physically, I've watched him cheap shot players, thus taking them out of their games mentally.

I've watched him personally under cut players twisting ankles... So IMO he is an enforcer.. A milder Artest version at the SF..

In no way is he a Mahorn/Laimbeer enforcer... But IMO an enforcer nonetheless..

Okay...but you are wrong. I understand, you committed and now you have to back it up

 

[PIP]

You're putting a little too much into this, and it would seem as if you would like to start something

What do you want backed up EXACTLY ? I've indicated why I believe he is one.. I did not say he is an enforcer and that's that.. I told you WHY I thought he was one.

The guy has personally went out there to hurt people.. What more do you want an enforcer to bring to the table ? Box cutter ? Break a Neck ?

 

[Rimage]

You're putting a little too much into this, and it would seem as if you would like to start something

What do you want backed up EXACTLY ? I've indicated why I believe he is one.. I did not say he is an enforcer and that's that.. I told you WHY I thought he was one.

The guy has personally went out there to hurt people.. What more do you want an enforcer to bring to the table ? Box cutter ? Break a Neck ?

I will tell you what I want! I want a steriod, raging monster that will bite other players ears off or run into the stands to rearrange some poor fools face if need be!!! :gap:

Seriously though, do seriously want White because of how "Bruce Bowen" he is? If it is, then we should definitely not pick him up, because there is no way we are going to get that out of him. :chuckles:

If we were going to get a Charles Oakley-type guy out of this, then I would be all for it...I just don't see that happening.

 

[PIP]

Well I would like that as well.. Steroids and all.. If we win then it's all acceptable..

But there is not anybody out there like that... Unless we make a deal for a Danny Fortson type..

 

[TJ_4_CV31]

Go ahead and take White. Trust me, you'll be disappointed. I saw him in person and he looked like the pro wrestler Kamala the Ugandan Giant. Very bad body....not a guy that opposing teams will worry about hurting them...except for hard fouls of course. Hamilton will put points on the board, something that you must do to beat an opponent.

Enforcers come in all shapes and sizes. Small guys like Isaiah Thomas have been known to intimidate many frontcourt players. He's gone upside a few of their heads in the past. It's all about attitude and intimidation. An aspect of intimidation is getting inside of an oppenent's head for reasons outside of scoring, passing, and rebounding. Dennis Rodman was also an enforcer. I would say that Bowen is somewhat similar to Dennis who pestered players with his relentless physical defense.

 

[highplainsdrifter]

Enforcers come in all shapes and sizes. Small guys like Isaiah Thomas have been known to intimidate many frontcourt players. He's gone upside a few of their heads in the past. It's all about attitude and intimidation. An aspect of intimidation is getting inside of an oppenent's head for reasons outside of scoring, passing, and rebounding. Dennis Rodman was also an enforcer. I would say that Bowen is somewhat similar to Dennis who pestered players with his relentless physical defense.

Excellent point TJ. To me an 'enforcer' is someone that gets under your skin, gets physical with you, messes with your psyche. They dont back down from anybody, and they will get MEAN if they have to. Isaiah is a great example.

Bruce Bowen is an enforcer. As is Ron Artest. And even the Bulls Andres Nocioni has enforcer potential, he really bothered LeBron last year. There is talk he is 'dirty', but it is good to have those kind of players on your team. Im not talkin cheap shots, that is cowardice. Someone who will get in your grill and man up to your game.

I dont think its in Z's personality to be an enforcer, same with Yao. Jahidi could be a player like this for us, a bruiser. Its still too close to call right now. White is recovering with injury. I say let the play on court determine who makes it between Jahidi and Zendon. Now that i think about it, the Cavs dont really have an 'enforcer'. Snow is close, and the Wild Thing.

 

[NarlCavs]

It's not really having an enforcer as a backup C but having a strong, physical player to help out Z and matchup when the Cavs play the bigger more physical C's in the league.
White is the stronger bigger player. Hamilton doesn't have as much strength.
It's more about the Cavs needing depth at C and a player whose game and style compliment the bigmen already on the Cavs roster.
Both these guys are the same age (Hamilton is actually a year older). White has done a lot more in his career than Hamilton.
That being said, at this point Hamilton has shown more in preseason so if he continues to show more than he should probably be the choice. White got off to a bad start and needs to show he's worth keeping around.

 

[Kypus]

I don't know how this got off track but I was calling AV a Bowen, not Jahidi White. Bowen's not an enforcer, he's straight-up pest defense. Karma has it right when saying Malik Rose was SA's enforcer.

 

[CleveRocks]

For my two cents.. Hamilton gets to the foul line a lot, which means the game slows down when he is in, and he puts pressure on the other backup's ability to stay in the game. That means for every minute of game clock time, the player he subs for gets more rest, and that means the opposing teams back up stays on the floor less.

I agree the Jahidi would provide more physical presence by virtue of is size, and that he would probably play a better game against the Deisel, but unless he actually shows better than Hamilton, I still go with Hamilton.

 

[TJ_4_CV31]

For my two cents.. Hamilton gets to the foul line a lot, which means the game slows down when he is in, and he puts pressure on the other backup's ability to stay in the game. That means for every minute of game clock time, the player he subs for gets more rest, and that means the opposing teams back up stays on the floor less.

I agree the Jahidi would provide more physical presence by virtue of is size, and that he would probably play a better game against the Deisel, but unless he actually shows better than Hamilton, I still go with Hamilton.

Very astute observation concerning the impact of drawing fouls. You're right on target here.

Ultimately, any guy that gaurds Shaq will have to foul him to stop him. So it doesn't matter if it's a 300lb guy fouling him or a 255lb guy fouling him, a foul is a foul. White has more body to put on Shaq on the glass, but the point is moot because Shaq is still to long, big, and athletic to be kept out of position by the lumbering White. Coincidently, Joel Pryzbilla was the best cover for Shaq that I've seen in the league thus far. He was always able to frustrate Shaq and never backed down from him.