Kevin Love - Miami Ground Machine

[Sebastian]

The grief is too near.

 

[LeShaq]

This is the worst Cavs related thread on this site in a long time.

It's embarrassing. Particularly the lack of basketball knowledge being shown.

One of the saddest aspects of what this thread has become is what you pointed out with the cat and mouse picture. Some fans of the team seem almost eager for the squad to lose just so they then have a "reason" to criticize Love. They seem to just be waiting to pounce, like the cat, but they can't really do so until we lose. So it's almost like the losses bring joy or something.

Truly pathetic. But I'm not surprised. I recall the first year the LeBron Heat were together and I remember how Bosh was treated for the 4 years LeBron was there. Tornicade's stats on the 5 man units should end any discussion. But it won't, and the cat will continue to wait to again pounce on Love's mouse. Just looking for that next Cavs loss.

 

[Mr. Orange]

So if we won a title, hypothetically, and Kevin Love was injured... Was it still "totally worth it?"

I ask because, it seems like no matter what, the ends will have justified the means using this logic; which is of course, illogical.

Yes, still worth it. If I am assuming LBJ returning was contingent on us trading for Love. I respect you opinion on Love. I am not sure he is a max guy either, but he will get it and we will pay it.

Watching him this year, I have seen a big improvement in his defense over the year. He was godawful in the beginning of the year, and now he is at least passable and will try to contest shots and close out. And he always rebounds, and he always floor spaces. I am still hopeful he figures his shot out.

Re: the trade, I think we overpaid by including the Miami pick, but oh well. I'm happy to be watching winning basketball again.

 

[The Oi]

Every single team in the league that can afford him and have a place for him would pay Kevin Love the max. This year changes nothing.

 

[Tornicade]

Really? When?

Youve got to be kidding me.
fine ill play your game. lets say that Love has never called for the ball n the paint this season. and since he has never called for the ball and never not gotten it and also never expressed any frustration on the court since i dont feel like weeding through 50 games of video and citing multiple examples to which you then dismiss the examples for whatever reason suits you at the time.

Love sat out on the perimeter and took too many threes in a game he should of been working to the basket and provided dlladova with a proper outlet option besides mozgov or TT who were welll covered when delly crossed the perimeter.

This is a sample of the Cavs not knowing when to transition into a half court offense or run the proper screens. Love completely disappeared on the offensive end and it created easy offense for the pacers.

I was happy they stuck with the offense. I was not happy that the guys were taking harder shots than they needed to.

Even had the Cavs won against Indiana the team still needs to improve and Love could be utilized better . Love himself has some impact on that.

 

[Cayman13]

Every single team in the league that can afford him and have a place for him would pay Kevin Love the max. This year changes nothing.

Seriously good point, for even myself who is not a huge fan of Kevin's. We will need this guy big time in the playoffs.

 

[Jscc]

Love sat out on the perimeter and took too many threes in a game he should of been working to the basket and provided dlladova with a proper outlet option besides mozgov or TT who were welll covered when delly crossed the perimeter.

Five of Kevin's threes came off screens. One came off a cut and only one was a spot-up. With the exception of the one near the end of the game where James Jones set a bad screen, they were all wide open looks. That's his job. If the look is there, take the shot. He did. They just weren't falling.

Most of the entire team stayed on the perimeter. Not just Kevin. West and Hibbert were clogging the paint.

 

[theSTEREO.]

Every single team in the league that can afford him and have a place for him would pay Kevin Love the max. This year changes nothing.

I'm shocked! Haven't those teams read this thread?? How are they supposed to be informed that he is at best a role player and not worthy of that max???

 

[gourimoko]

Yes, still worth it. If I am assuming LBJ returning was contingent on us trading for Love.

We've been told, numerous times by our insiders, that this was not the case. LeBron came back for Cleveland, not for Kevin Love.

So now, without this condition.... do you have the same opinion?

I respect you opinion on Love. I am not sure he is a max guy either, but he will get it and we will pay it.

Absolutely. There is no doubt in my mind about this.

Watching him this year, I have seen a big improvement in his defense over the year. He was godawful in the beginning of the year, and now he is at least passable and will try to contest shots and close out. And he always rebounds, and he always floor spaces. I am still hopeful he figures his shot out.

Agreed. What might surprise some folks is that since I lived in the Philippines last year, all I watched was NBA basketball. I watched quite a few Wolves games and I always thought Kevin Love was an offensive powerhouse. But for all his talents offensively, it seemed as though he had relatively little ability or desire at all to play defense.

It's why I felt he was a very one-sided player, and I still do to an extent; although, Kevin's defense has been much improved and that's something that I think shows his game is still growing.

This is an off-year for him as far as I'm concerned. Our system isn't designed to utilize him in the offense, and he's still a defensive liability even with his improved effort.

Maybe in the offseason, he can sit down with management and ask them to intervene to hopefully steer Blatt to integrate him more into the offense.

I think next season, Kevin Love will be much better than he has been this season.

Re: the trade, I think we overpaid by including the Miami pick, but oh well. I'm happy to be watching winning basketball again.

Re: the trade, if this 17/10 floor spacer Kevin Love with average/below-average defense is what we ended up with; because of the system we run, or because of a lack of a pass-first Rubio style point guard, or the lack of a coach who knows how to use Love -- regardless -- we got robbed. The guy on the floor wasn't worth Andrew Wiggins.

However, if Kevin Love goes back to being as effective as he was offensively last season, and he can continue to play at least average defense, then and only then would the trade have been worth it.

A 26-year old best offensive PF is worth a 19-year old potential superstar to a competing team with a narrow window. That makes sense. Anything less than that doesn't.

 

[gourimoko]

@theSTEREO. , so wait, let me get this straight... For years we trashed Dion Waiters, including this year, in the Waiters thread.

Trashed the kid..

We trashed Kyrie in the Irving thread. We demanded Tristan Thompson be traded I dunno how many times in the Thompson thread.

Now in the Kevin Love thread we have to use kid-gloves? I'm not trashing the guy, I'm making honest and legitimate criticisms.

@LeShaq , so are these threads supposed to be where fans come in a fellate their favorite players? Two or three posters have said outright, that other posters should not criticize our players or team. I'm not trying to pounce on Kevin Love, I'm saying "hey, this guy isn't performing up to par; something isn't right!"

Is your view, "nope, we're winning, don't wanna here it?"

What are we here for if not to discuss basketball?

Instead of you guys making yet another post about how we shouldn't be talking about Kevin Love in the Kevin Love thread, just state your case. You think he's playing great? Then say so...

Personally, I don't think he's playing great, and it's concerning at this point of the season.

 

[All4One1ForAll]

^This. Seriously, what gourimoko said. This is a basketball forum where we're supposed to discuss and argue Cavs basketball. Love isn't performing up to expectations, so we're talking about it. What, so you just want everybody to kiss his ass and use all the threads on this site to talk about how much we love are players and how good they are? It's fine that people have different opinions and it's fine that people can debate. Stop acting like we're the only basketball forum that does it.

 

[Ohio]

Overall, I think he's playing good enough. Is he playing at a level I (or many) thought he would? No. But I also knew he was going to be the 3rd option on this team and therefore, not only was his production automatically going to slip, but it was going to take quite some time for him to adjust to playing with two ball dominant stars. I thought he'd be closer to 20 ppg, but honestly, that's just another made shot here or there.

At the end of the day, the team is vastly superior with him on the court and that is more than enough for me. Not everything is measured in points per game and shooting percentage.

I fully expect that, in time, his efficiency will only improve. I personally do not see much reason to bash Love. This is the best Cavaliers team of all time (by far) and Love is a huge reason why. We are setup with a nice 5+ year Championship window (at least) and Love is a huge reason why. Love very well may end up being the best frontcourt player (excluding LeBron) in Cavaliers history.

 

[gourimoko]

^This. Seriously, what gourimoko said. This is a basketball forum where we're supposed to discuss and argue Cavs basketball. Love isn't performing up to expectations, so we're talking about it.

The bolded is really the entire point isn't it?

I mean, 17/10 is good but when you consider that this is at 43% from the field for a PF, then it becomes harder to hide behind.

 

[Mr. Orange]

We've been told, numerous times by our insiders, that this was not the case. LeBron came back for Cleveland, not for Kevin Love.

So now, without this condition.... do you have the same opinion?



Absolutely. There is no doubt in my mind about this.



Agreed. What might surprise some folks is that since I lived in the Philippines last year, all I watched was NBA basketball. I watched quite a few Wolves games and I always thought Kevin Love was an offensive powerhouse. But for all his talents offensively, it seemed as though he had relatively little ability or desire at all to play defense.

It's why I felt he was a very one-sided player, and I still do to an extent; although, Kevin's defense has been much improved and that's something that I think shows his game is still growing.

This is an off-year for him as far as I'm concerned. Our system isn't designed to utilize him in the offense, and he's still a defensive liability even with his improved effort.

Maybe in the offseason, he can sit down with management and ask them to intervene to hopefully steer Blatt to integrate him more into the offense.

I think next season, Kevin Love will be much better than he has been this season.



Re: the trade, if this 17/10 floor spacer Kevin Love with average/below-average defense is what we ended up with; because of the system we run, or because of a lack of a pass-first Rubio style point guard, or the lack of a coach who knows how to use Love -- regardless -- we got robbed. The guy on the floor wasn't worth Andrew Wiggins.

However, if Kevin Love goes back to being as effective as he was offensively last season, and he can continue to play at least average defense, then and only then would the trade have been worth it.

A 26-year old best offensive PF is worth a 19-year old potential superstar to a competing team with a narrow window. That makes sense. Anything less than that doesn't.

I think the jury is still out on the trade. Yes, it looks like an overpay today if we project Wiggins as a superstar, but he isn't one yet. In July, before Wiggins even played a game, I understand the trade. And even today, I am ok with it. I want a title, and I think making the most of LBJ's last 3-4 prime years are our best shot at a title. I refuse to blame management for going for it.

 

[Hydroponic3385]

There's nothing wrong with being critical of players. But it's a little tiring hearing both:

1) People complain about that criticism (cuz of course fans should be able to critique any player, especially one that cost a lot via trade and salary)
2) And the critical people complaining about not being able to do so (cuz um, there's been plenty of criticism for pages and pages, so I have no idea why you're feeling victimized)

There will always be criticism - about particular players, and about dissenting perspectives with other fans.

Now Love please go out there and perform to the point of shutting this thread up for a day or two (which historically means he plays well, cuz it *does* seem to be true that this thread is quieter when he has a good game).