Brandon Weeden: GTFO!!

[MalTalm]

Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

Exactly. The great QBs love to be blitzed and thrive against it because they know they can beat it. It takes coverage away, leaves people open and they feel very confident that they can get the ball out in time.

The reason why Weeden is blitzed and he struggles is because he's slow as molasses on the field. His footwork is slow, his reads are slow, he's slow getting the ball out unless it's drawn up that way, etc. Putting pressure on a guy who needs all day to work is how to beat him. Even the extra time in the gun can't save him from himself. When Weeden gets pressured, he craps the bed and makes bad decisions/forces passes. Yes, he can throw a really nice pass when he can sit back there and deliver it comfortably but that's just it... good defenses know not to let him do that.

Weeden just isn't very good and the knocks on him are no different than they were in his draft profile. He has all the arm tools but doesn't have it going upstairs (in a football sense). What was going through his head Sunday when it was 4th and 8 and rather than heave a desperation pass that has a 10% chance of working, he throws the ball out of bounds and lets Miami ice it? It's a small example but things like that happen all the time and go to illustrate a greater point... his football IQ isn't high.

He's probably our best option at this point but I'd be beyond stunned if didn't draft a replacement first thing in 2014 barring a sudden change in his capabilities. If we had a legitimate option in our laps last year via the draft, I don't even know that it would've ever gotten this far. He's done.

Not necessarily true, depending on how you define a "great QB."

Eli Manning had struggles against the blitz last year, but that was partly due to decreased effectiveness from his OLine. Peyton Manning gets baited into INTs at a higher clip than myth would imply.

However this is an area where Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees all excel at. Brady and Rodgers, in particular, do better under pressure than in soft coverage. The issue isn't Weeden's failure to handle pressure, rather that when he's not under pressure, he's still terrible. He's inaccurate, he struggles to throw with touch, and the worst part is, how often he makes the wrong read. The amount of times he throws into coverage despite having an open receiver somewhere else on the field is astounding. He lacks vision, and for a pocket QB, that's a death sentence.

 

[Triplethreat]

Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

Whatever.. I'm willing to give Weeden time, but if we start dropping games I'm all in for the #TankForBridgewater campaign to end this god damn carousel.

EDIT: Malt making asinine statements. Weeden is actually pretty damn good when he has time to deliver the ball. Don't know where the fuck you're getting your info.

 

[FiveThous]

Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

The issue isn't Weeden's failure to handle pressure, rather that when he's not under pressure, he's still terrible. He's inaccurate, he struggles to throw with touch, and the worst part is, how often he makes the wrong read. The amount of times he throws into coverage despite having an open receiver somewhere else on the field is astounding. He lacks vision, and for a pocket QB, that's a death sentence.

Brandon Weeden hit 72% with 21 completions 213 yards 1 TD and a 90.2 QB rating when not pressured yesterday

man those #s are atrocious

 

[AZ_]

Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

Brandon Weeden hit 72% with 21 completions 213 yards 1 TD and a 90.2 QB rating when not pressured yesterday

man those #s are atrocious

Pretty average, I would imagine.

 

[MalTalm]

Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

Brandon Weeden hit 72% with 21 completions 213 yards 1 TD and a 90.2 QB rating when not pressured yesterday

man those #s are atrocious

Good on one game.

Last season:

TDs: 12 INT: 10 Comp %: 62.3

He averaged 6.55 yards per attempt, 3rd worst in the NFL

We talk constantly about his big arm, yet despite a heavy amount of usage in pass plays, he had the 3rd lowest yards in the air (Doesn't take into account dropped passes or YAC). This is largely due to his ineffectiveness on the deep ball, which everyone assumes to be his saving grace.

He only completed 31.6% of his deep balls last year, good enough for the 2nd worse in the NFL, despite throwing deep on 11% of his attempts.

I'm getting my stats off of PFF, and I trust sample size. He's not very good when he's not pressured, and he's horrendous when he is. That's not a winning formula.

I was a Weeden supporter last year, I thought we might have gotten a bargain grabbing a guy whose biggest knock was his age late in the 1st round. But he isn't producing, and it's becoming evident he isn't going to. That's not to say he'll never have a good game, I suspect in the next 3 or 4 weeks he'll throw for 350 yards, 3 TDs and 1 or 2 INTs, and people will start justifying him. But he's far more Hyde than Jekyll, and he's not going to cut it in the NFL.

 

[Triplethreat]

Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

You guys all forgot about Pat Shurmer didn't you? :chuckles:

Malt: Don't know about those stats at all.

"But the most accurate I've graded? Brandon Weeden, who was 26-42 for 7 TDs and 0 INTs." -- From a tweet earlier in the thread posted by JMcCurry, these are his stats last year on throws beyond 15 yards.

He was excellent.

 

[Spectre]

Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

Weeden is actually pretty damn good when he has time to deliver the ball.

That's true but what amounts to an acceptable amount of time? There are QBs with far worse lines than Weeden's who are able to make plays. The NFL is not going to allow you the same kind of delivery window that a clay pigeon thrower will.

 

[godfather]

Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

Not sure why we should pile on Chud yet. Chip Kelly landed in the perfect spot, with the perfect skillset players that fit his scheme. I guarantee we would have NOT scored 33, or whatever points he had in the first half if he were coaching in Cleveland.

Any QB in the NFL is pretty good when they have time to deliver the football. When is that? Like a handful of times during the game? I saw part of the Pats game, Brady was getting MULLED to pieces! His skillset players made the Browns players look like pro bowlers. He STILL won the game! Because he's good, and Weeden still threw three picks, because he's not good.

 

[bob2the2nd]

Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

If ya don't know now ya know

oh? or is this just you making stuff up?

maybe you missed it where the redskins went absolutely fucking insane and gave up huge amounts of draft picks for RG3, and the browns either refused to match or werent given the chance or the rams and redskins already were buddy buddies and made a deal regardless of the browns.


also the browns gave chip kelly plenty of chance to coach this team, and his pussy ass couldnt decide if he actually wanted to leave Oregon or not, so after the browns gave him a deadline, it passed, THEY moved on. Later chip kelly finally made up his mind.

sooo doesnt sound like either were really ever options.

 

[Tornicade]

Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

Brandon Weeden hit 72% with 21 completions 213 yards 1 TD and a 90.2 QB rating when not pressured yesterday

man those #s are atrocious

	No Pressure	With Pressure
Accuracy Percentage	74.3%	61.0%
Completion Percentage	64.7%	46.9%
Yards Per Attempt	7.4	5.9
Depth of Target	8.3	8.8
Interception Rate	2.0%	3.8%
Throwaway Percentage	0.9%	9.2%
NFL Passer Rating	93.1	59.8

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https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/22/sig-stats-snapshot-passing-under-pressure/
pressure isnt the sane stat as blitzing.

 

[MalTalm]

Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

You guys all forgot about Pat Shurmer didn't you? :chuckles:

Malt: Don't know about those stats at all.

"But the most accurate I've graded? Brandon Weeden, who was 26-42 for 7 TDs and 0 INTs." -- From a tweet earlier in the thread posted by JMcCurry, these are his stats last year on throws beyond 15 yards.

He was excellent.

There's no way that's accurate. He threw the ball 20 yards or more 57 times, which can't be greater than the 42 attempt mark listed above. On those throws, he's 14-57, with 9 TDs and 6 INTs and a completion percentage of 31.6%.

 

[godfather]

Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

	No Pressure	With Pressure
Accuracy Percentage	74.3%	61.0%
Completion Percentage	64.7%	46.9%
Yards Per Attempt	7.4	5.9
Depth of Target	8.3	8.8
Interception Rate	2.0%	3.8%
Throwaway Percentage	0.9%	9.2%
NFL Passer Rating	93.1	59.8

<thead>
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</tbody>

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/22/sig-stats-snapshot-passing-under-pressure/
pressure isnt the sane stat as blitzing.

Exactly. He sticks when he's face with any pressure.

There's a difference between a team dropping guys in coverages, and a line still getting at the QB with 3 guys on two step drops. THAT is on the line. THIS is on the QB.

When the blitz is coming, any QB knows they get less time, but bigger holes in the coverage. Weeden is too slow to figure that out. He's not a smart/good decision maker to figure it out fast enough. He's just not good. There should be no argument suggesting he seriously is.

17 games we've seen him play. He's bad.

 

[MalTalm]

Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

You guys all forgot about Pat Shurmer didn't you? :chuckles:

Malt: Don't know about those stats at all.

"But the most accurate I've graded? Brandon Weeden, who was 26-42 for 7 TDs and 0 INTs." -- From a tweet earlier in the thread posted by JMcCurry, these are his stats last year on throws beyond 15 yards.

He was excellent.

This post is misleading, and sadly I took the time to look it up. He was referring to a statistic he invented, he simply calls accuracy. He discounts uncatchable throws, IE far off target, and throws the receiver needs to adjust the route to, on the theory that this is more likely to do with miscommunication than inaccurate throws. He also mentioned something about 6 games being too small a sample size to draw significant conclusions from, and I don't know if this was related (IE he only pulled tape from 6 games). It's hard to follow twitter.

But he states it has nothing to do with completion percentage, as he doesn't like that stat for various reasons. Which is all well and good, but I personally don't put a ton of faith in a BR writer to develop strong statistical evaluation when he has no background in statistical analysis.

EDIT: Just to completely discount the above post, here are some Weeden interceptions obviously beyond 15 yards, which this writer decided weren't attributable to Weeden.

[video=youtube;fcL_NcRKD9I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcL_NcRKD9I[/video]

[video=youtube;4LxTJnpIGVo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LxTJnpIGVo[/video]

http://www.redskins.com/media-galle...rception/c370575f-51df-435f-b9c4-c687e2a91dfe

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000090199/Week-9-Brandon-Weeden-highlights - This one is particularly damning, as I'm not sure how either of those INTs could be attributed to anyone but Weeden.

 

[Ohio]

Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

oh? or is this just you making stuff up?

maybe you missed it where the redskins went absolutely fucking insane and gave up huge amounts of draft picks for RG3, and the browns either refused to match or werent given the chance or the rams and redskins already were buddy buddies and made a deal regardless of the browns.


also the browns gave chip kelly plenty of chance to coach this team, and his pussy ass couldnt decide if he actually wanted to leave Oregon or not, so after the browns gave him a deadline, it passed, THEY moved on. Later chip kelly finally made up his mind.

sooo doesnt sound like either were really ever options.

We lost out on RG3 because we werent willing to part with a 2nd round pick. All the picks we used (that would have been traded) combined aren't worth what RG3 is.

And Kelly chose Philadelphia over us. Why? Because of the roster. That probably changes if we have RG3.

 

[AZ_]

Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

We lost out on RG3 because we werent willing to part with a 2nd round pick. All the picks we used (that would have been traded) combined aren't worth what RG3 is.

And Kelly chose Philadelphia over us. Why? Because of the roster. That probably changes if we have RG3.

Neither of these statements are entirely true.