Your view of Colt McCoy

[Sly]

Update to a previous post.

Since Colt himself mentioned it.. I've when back through all the drive charts and after six starts, McCoy continues to be better in the shotgun than when coming from under center. The numbers have evened up a bit, likely due to the Titans game, where he actually had better numbers under center, and the Seahawks game where he was barely in the shotgun at all. He is right that he hasn't been in the shotgun much the past few games, but overall it's been about 50/50 for the season. Once again, my numbers are slightly off, but it's essentially correct.

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78/120 693yds 65% Shotgun

To:
WR 41/65 415yds 63%
TE 19/30 166yds 63%
RB 18/25 112yds 72%

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62/120 591yds 52% Under Center

To:
WR 24/53 281yds 45%
TE 22/47 204yds 46%
RB 15/19 111yds 79%
QB 1/1 -5yds 100%

-----------------------------------------

 

[AZ_]

Players need to quit complaining to the media. It makes the team look bad themselves even worse.

As someone who works in sports PR, it's truly remarkable how negligent some players are when talking to the media.

That falls solely on preparation of their PR staff and their inability to train those players not to say such stupid things.

Of course, the NFL is a different ballgame too. So it's a bit tougher when you've got media relentlessly talking about one game a week instead of one game per day.

 

[The Oi]

Good post.

The problem with Colt wanting to be throwing out of the shotgun all the time, is that it basically renders big bruising backs useless. At that point you're going to have to run draws and general trickery which usually requires fast, speedy little guys.

Not being able to run the ball traditionally is going to be a problem come winter time...

 

[Sly]

Good post.

The problem with Colt wanting to be throwing out of the shotgun all the time, is that it basically renders big bruising backs useless. At that point you're going to have to run draws and general trickery which usually requires fast, speedy little guys.

Not being able to run the ball traditionally is going to be a problem come winter time...

Yeah that really leads back to the elephant in the room, and that is that Peyton Hillis is probably the best player on offense. You sort of have to make a choice between completely separate game plans for Hillis and McCoy to be fully effective. You can't exactly come out in the 'I' with Hillis and run every time, or in the shotgun and pass every time. The defense would always know what you were doing. Ogbonnaya is a bit of a wildcard, last game he showed explosiveness, the ability to catch the ball and make plays. Assuming there's no improvement by McCoy under center, you sort of have to move away from one or the other in the offseason. Retaining either one seems to be a giant leap of faith though.

 

[The Oi]

Yeah that really leads back to the elephant in the room, and that is that Peyton Hillis is probably the best player on offense. You sort of have to make a choice between completely separate game plans for Hillis and McCoy to be fully effective. You can't exactly come out in the 'I' with Hillis and run every time, or in the shotgun and pass every time. The defense would always know what you were doing. Ogbonnaya is a bit of a wildcard, last game he showed explosiveness, the ability to catch the ball and make plays. Assuming there's no improvement by McCoy under center, you sort of have to move away from one or the other in the offseason. Retaining either one seems to be a giant leap of faith though.

Which is why I think the Browns are stuck absolutely having to draft a versatile QB that can gun the ball out of any formation and not rely on play action or bootlegs every time he's under center.

 

[Sly]

I'm not completely willing to to say that Colt can't do it. When his feet are set and has time to make a throw, he can get it done. The trouble is that he doesn't ever really get his feet set and doesn't have the arm strength to make up for not being completely set. I'm not comparing them, but Brady is an example of a guy who developed a lot of arm strength after he got to the NFL. How much exactly can you gain, I don't know. If you look at McCoy, you can see that he hasn't really physically matured though. Unfortunately, we're having to wait for that while he's playing. I'm not saying he needs to roid it up like Quinn, but he really needs to bulk it up a little. My real concern continues to be his height. As soon as the ball is snapped and everyone has their arms up, he starts moving around, and I think it's because he can't see. Brees is a similar height, but he has enough arm strength to burn you if you bring an extra guy. I have to wonder how much Brees' physical development had to do with the player he became. He looked like nothing special, then all of a sudden he was great. Was it mental or physical? Brady Quinn was drafted because of who he was in college. A lot of players are drafted on what they can become, not what they are. The question is, whether Colt was drafted because of who he was, or if Holmgren envisioned what he could become.
I'm not sore about drafting McCoy. I don't think that we have a better option and he only cost us a 3rd. As far as drafting someone in a year where we have 2 firsts, If he's there -take him. I would also make a play at Luck. I wouldn't trade picks to get anyone else though. I would rather end up with a Brees/Rivers situation than having nothing. If McCoy doesn't show improvement in this next offseason, then you can completely move on. If he does improve, QB's have a lot of value..

 

[CardiacCavs]

woops wrong thread

 

[albert05]

I like McCoy but just cant figure out how much yet

 

[BooyaCS]

McCoy is going to be a decent backup in the league. He isn't much of a starter yet. His passes have no zip on them (the deeper ones) and when he throws the ball deep he looks like Braxton Miller...Run and Heave.

This is the problem with the spread option QBs to come out of college. The only one putting up decent numbers is Cam Newton and there isn't enough film on him yet.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Update to a previous post.

Since Colt himself mentioned it.. I've when back through all the drive charts and after six starts, McCoy continues to be better in the shotgun than when coming from under center. The numbers have evened up a bit, likely due to the Titans game, where he actually had better numbers under center, and the Seahawks game where he was barely in the shotgun at all. He is right that he hasn't been in the shotgun much the past few games, but overall it's been about 50/50 for the season. Once again, my numbers are slightly off, but it's essentially correct.

-----------------------------------------

78/120 693yds 65% Shotgun

To:
WR 41/65 415yds 63%
TE 19/30 166yds 63%
RB 18/25 112yds 72%

-----------------------------------------

62/120 591yds 52% Under Center

To:
WR 24/53 281yds 45%
TE 22/47 204yds 46%
RB 15/19 111yds 79%
QB 1/1 -5yds 100%

-----------------------------------------

I watched every minute of that game against the 49ers, and he had success in the shotgun, true. Let's acknowledge a few other factors here:

1. No statistical analysis in the world can make it seem like the Browns offense was ever a threat. Not for one second did the offense look like it might win Cleveland this game. Colt threw a beautiful pass to Cribbs and Cribbs showed he can run with the ball in his hands. Take away that play and Colt looked like a child among men.

2. When Colt is in the shotgun, the Browns are usually down by more than one score. The opponent isn't blitzing, and is basically in a prevent defense. Even with these factors in play, Colt still primarily looks to throw behind the first down marker... basically playing into what the opposing defense WANTS him to do. Connecting to Cribbs on a sideline route was the exception, not the rule. Shotgun or no shotgun, he is playing dink and and dunk... and losing.

3. From the shotgun, there is a very limited range of plays that can effectively run the football. You can make a case that they don't have the healthy backs to run the football anyway, but eventually the Browns want to utilize a very effective blocking fullback and power running tailback. Colt's attempt to form the whole offense around what he is comfortable with from college flies in the face of what the Browns brought Holmgren to Cleveland to establish.

4. The Browns have upped the targets to wide receivers, but look at the routes Colt is targeting. Norwood averaged 6.4 yards per catch and Little averaged 7 yards per reception. That would be impressive if we were watching a sixth grade CYO team, but straight up pitiful for a professional franchise.

5. Alex Smith, the winning quarterback today, also came from a spread attack and whined to 49er coaches to play our of the shotgun more often. They lost a lot of games and Smith lost his starting job three or four times during that span. Under Harbaugh this year, Smith has learned to stop trying to win games all by himself and trust the system. He doesn't throw a quarter of the number of picks he used to throw because they have accepted a power running identity. McCoy would be wise to see how Alex Smith has started the process of learning from his coach rather than trying to bring the spread offense to the NFL. Everyone knows you don't win in the NFL with spread offense dink and dunk.

 

[Sly]

The spread offense is already in the NFL, and the Bills are making people look stupid with it. The Patriots often run the spread, and a lot of other teams use it on occasion as well. Whether McCoy can run it at that level, perhaps or perhaps not. We don't know and wont know because we refuse to try it. McCoy is better in the shotgun, he's more comfortable in the shotgun. I'm not sure why you need to force square pegs into round holes. He can't play under center. Every game is an example of that. If it takes, what 5 years like Alex Smith to teach him how to do it another way, I'm not on board. What we're doing now is exactly the same thing Mangini was doing, trying to make players do things they're not good at because it's his way. No matter what we do, it's still the same terminology. They're still talking in digits. Opposing teams are not always in prevent when McCoy is in the shotgun, but they're definitely on they're heels. It's the only time in the entire game in which the Browns are somewhat dangerous. The power running game certainly takes a hit, but it's just a philosophy change. The alternative is to keep hammering that square peg and it's not working.

 

[Pavlovic3Ball]

Not a fan of the spread offense, personally. I realize an OC needs to help put his QB in a position to succeed but Colt isn't worth overhauling the whole offense (or lack off). Im not sold on Shurmur, but im not ready to throw him under the bus. I would like to see how his offense would look with a QB that doesn't have the timing/vision of Helen Keller.

 

[Sly]

The term 'spread offense' is pretty watered down really. I'm not suggesting we go all out Hal Mumme Air Raid. I don't think it requires a complete overhaul of the offense either. We already go to shotgun type sets late 3rdQ/early 4thQ anyway. It's just too late to win the game by then. I'm just suggesting we incorporate it more into the full game offense along with some no huddle.

 

[AZ_]

Good to see the coaching staff has to abandon their offensive philosophy because Colt is so limited in his skillset.

That will probably bode well for the future.

 

[Phills14]

Good to see the coaching staff has to abandon their offensive philosophy because Colt is so limited in his skillset.

That will probably bode well for the future.

We're not talking absolutes here. You don't have to abandon offensive philosophies. You mix in different elements to be successful. You can run a no huddle for a series. You can run shotgun a couple of times within a series. You don't have to be a 100% shotgun or 100% no huddle offense. Obviously, we are trying to be a 100% west coast offense and it doesn't work with the players we have. It can work if you mix up your playbook and design plays that can be successful with the players you have. It's amazing how the 3 yard out that is horribly unsuccessful thus far can be improved when you run something completely different the play before for positive yards. It's when the defense knows what to expect from you play after play that your offense looks like this.

It is without question that we have a lack of talent on this team. Regardless of the schemes we run we still wouldn't be a very good offense. However; we have an unimagnitive and stubborn offensive philosophy and it makes us look even worse than we actually are.