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Chris Grant - Cavaliers GM

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flashyshalo said:
I don't think you understand what i am trying to say

The poster was basically saying it was okay that we passed on Drummond because 7 o 8 other teams passed on him so it was justified to be one of those teams that didnt take him. Well my point was that it is a silly comment. If the 2012 draft was to be re-done, Drummond would be in the top 3.....I think it would be A.D., Drummond and then Lilllard (big men are harder to find than PG's)....so basically a lot of scouts got it wrong and where a player is drafted doesn't reflect their ability. Is Anthony Bennett the best player in the 2013 draft? Was Adam Morrisson better than Brandon Roy? No, but the Wizards still took him.

Some teams punch above their weight like Spurs and OKC and draft very well...I recall Westbrook wasn't even projected to go in the top 10, yet OKC took him at number 4.
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I understand fine. you made some silly shortsighted comments that as one guy sometimes says wasnt "logical" and I pointed out the fallacy.

theres lot of reasons Grant passing on drummond is okay. The response was indicating that Grant wasnt the only GM that had doubts about this draft pick. whether the GM's collectively or competent or not is another matter.

Still Drummond doesnt have a post game or range game. he is a highly specialized talent. some teambuilders dont want to draft a specialist in the top 10
 
Grant knows that it is historically hard to hit on every pick so he's done a stellar job at creating as many opportunities as possible. Since taking oturned Mo Williams, Jamario Moon, JJ Hickson, Ramon Sessions, Andrew Bynum, Jon Leur, and some 2nd rounders into Kyrie, Zeller, Karasev, Deng and the future Memphis 1st rounder, which will likely be a lottery pick in either 2015 or 2016. He has also refused to trade away any of our own future draft picks to date.
 
If anything all these stellar examples of sensation later pick shows a team doesnt have to tank to get a good basketball player.
 
I wanted Drummond back then and a whole bunch of people here told me I was full of crap. But I right now really like Waiters a lot and I didn't even know who he was back then. It would be nice to have our center position nailed down and back then I thought Drummond's physical tools were worth a shot. But now I think if Kyrie and Dion could ever learn to play off one another properly they could make a deadly one-two punch that would be very difficult to defend. No telling if or when that will ever happen but if it did it would be awesome.

So basically I defer to the reigning GM because no matter what I might think I know about a player or a draft there's no way the GM and the scouts don't know about 100x more. Second guessing is cheap.
 
I think the fairest assessment of Grant and drafting is that it's neither his strongest suit as a GM so far (King of Trades) but neither is he necessarily disastrous at it.

Yeah, he's definitely not always picked quite as well as he should have but the key thing to remember is that he was making those picks during three consecutive historically weak drafts. That doesn't mean there was no better talent to be unearthed than what he picked -- there was and for that he deserves a ding -- but when you've got a weak draft it lowers your odds of getting a gem compared to a strong draft.

Even a mediocre GM in the Top 5 is probably going to hit a home run in the 2014 draft. It's a hell of a lot easier not to screw the pooch when the talent pool is better. So to some extent, when he's compared with other GMs who've done better at drafting during their rebuilds, you also have to adjust for the fact that they had a much higher chance of hitting than Grant's had during these past three years.

It's just our rotten luck that it turned out that way. It's not necessarily anyone's fault.
 
Meshuggener said:
I think the fairest assessment of Grant and drafting is that it's neither his strongest suit as a GM so far (King of Trades) but neither is he necessarily disastrous at it.

Yeah, he's definitely not always picked quite as well as he should have but the key thing to remember is that he was making those picks during three consecutive historically weak drafts. That doesn't mean there was no better talent to be unearthed than what he picked -- there was and for that he deserves a ding -- but when you've got a weak draft it lowers your odds of getting a gem compared to a strong draft.

Even a mediocre GM in the Top 5 is probably going to hit a home run in the 2014 draft. It's a hell of a lot easier not to screw the pooch when the talent pool is better. So to some extent, when he's compared with other GMs who've done better at drafting during their rebuilds, you also have to adjust for the fact that they had a much higher chance of hitting than Grant's had during these past three years.

It's just our rotten luck that it turned out that way. It's not necessarily anyone's fault.
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And, he could have done a lot worse in 2011 and 2012 had he gone with the conventional wisdom. Everyone was saying in 2012 that we should have taken Valanciunas at 4 in 2011, which would have freed us up to take Thomas Robinson at 4 in 2012... the guy considered the clear BPA at the time.

Would you trade Thompson and Waiters for Valanciunas and Robinson right now? I wouldn't.
 
When LeBron James left in the summer of 2010, this team had literally 0 assets. No 1st round pick. No talent. No cap room. It is now 3.5 years later and we have a star young point guard, an all-star forward, a few very talented young guys, a roster that should be on its way to the playoffs, and ample cap space. Chris Grant should be given a medal for what he's accomplished. If Bennett improves next year and Deng re-signs, Grant will be the new face for building a team.


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Tornicade IED said:
I understand fine. you made some silly shortsighted comments that as one guy sometimes says wasnt "logical" and I pointed out the fallacy.

theres lot of reasons Grant passing on drummond is okay. The response was indicating that Grant wasnt the only GM that had doubts about this draft pick. whether the GM's collectively or competent or not is another matter.

Still Drummond doesnt have a post game or range game. he is a highly specialized talent. some teambuilders dont want to draft a specialist in the top 10
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If you would rather have Dion Waiters than Drummond, I don't know why you even watch basketball.
 
flashyshalo said:
If you would rather have Dion Waiters than Drummond, I don't know why you even watch basketball.
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What are you talking about? they are both growing Into their and to be Honest Waiters off the bench and at clutch time Is his Thang. Drummond Is well Drummond and out of over structure our Cavs have a better one by far and ignore the Pistons record. Waiters has become the new James Harden... So there Is that.
 
Snarly said:
What are you talking about? they are both growing Into their and to be Honest Waiters off the bench and at clutch time Is his Thang. Drummond Is well Drummond and out of over structure our Cavs have a better one by far and ignore the Pistons record. Waiters has become the new James Harden... So there Is that.
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Like it or not James Harden is the best SG playing right now.

Dion isn't even a top 10 SG yet so no he is not the new James Harden.
 
I can always count on the same 3 posters to shit on Dion whenever given the chance. :chuckles:


Anyway, I still think Grant is a great GM who had the bad luck of being in good draft position during drafts where there were very few, if any star players available.
 
Los216 said:
Like it or not James Harden is the best SG playing right now.

Dion isn't even a top 10 SG yet so no he is not the new James Harden.
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On offense maybe... Probably as he was in his OKC days, Dion is comparable to him. Drafting Val and probably going after TRob next, TRob is well... Nowhere to be found. TT is not that much worse than Val, while Dion is a lot better than TRob. All based on what if's anyway.

Imagine us getting no 1 pick = Davis last year. Fck.
 
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