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Dion Waiters Traded

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Grade the Trade (Waiters + Kirk/Amundsen + 2nd rd pick for Smith, Shumpert, and 1st rd pick)

  • A+

    Votes: 18 7.1%

  • A

    Votes: 68 26.7%

  • B

    Votes: 106 41.6%

  • C

    Votes: 44 17.3%

  • D

    Votes: 10 3.9%

  • F

    Votes: 9 3.5%
  • Total voters
    255
  • Poll closed .
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RTrees said:
You do know that assists in not a way to measure if one guy is passing to another guy, right?

If one guy is more likely to shoot, and the other is more likely to dribble, comparing their stats on assists to each other doesn't show you who passes the ball more to whom.

And 18 minutes is not even half of a game. Instead of 40 games it's the equivalent of playing starters minutes together for 20 games. They have barely 20 games of full game experience together, sparsed across 40 games. We're essentially avoiding creating chemistry between the two.

The main stat there is that Dion plays more minutes without Kyrie than he plays with him. That's what a lot of people in here have a problem with. Dion is learning to play without Kyrie more than he's learning to play with him.
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Also compare their catch and shoot numbers. Dion is good (45.0%), Kyrie isn't (35.3%). If they passed to each other an identical amount, Kyrie would have more assists because of it.

OLXiXZv.png
 
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SteelSmack said:
Also compare their catch and shoot numbers. Dion is good (45.0%), Kyrie isn't (35.3%). If they passed to each other an identical amount, Kyrie would have more assists because of it.

OLXiXZv.png
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Interesting stats. But even that hypothetical is assuming they're taking the same number of shots when they pass to each other. They could pass an identical amount but not shoot off the catch an identical amount. That's probably kind of what you meant, but I think we agree on the basic idea, assists not a way to measure # of passes.
 
RTrees said:
Interesting stats. But even that hypothetical is assuming they're taking the same number of shots when they pass to each other. They could pass an identical amount but not shoot off the catch an identical amount. That's probably kind of what you meant, but I think we agree on the basic idea, assists not a way to measure # of passes.
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I was adding to it, not correcting it. Both factors are at play.

Edit:
Looking at it again, Dion's catch and shoot eFG% is darn near elite. Too bad he can't play off the ball, eh?
 
SteelSmack said:
I was adding to it, not correcting it. Both factors are at play.

Edit:
Looking at it again, Dion's catch and shoot eFG% is darn near elite. Too bad he can't play off the ball, eh?
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Ugh... Deng is(or used to be) good at this too and he's not doing it here. These guys' games are on lockdown.

Dan Gilbert where are you?
 
If only most of the shots he took were catch and shoot. But that's part of the problem, isn't it? He doesn't want to catch and shoot. That's why you draft a SG that actually likes running off screens and giving the ball handler a target rather than standing up top 30 feet away with your hands open calling for the ball... You're "open" because no one cares about you asking for the ball that far away, Dion. SMH
 
Brandon Price said:
If only most of the shots he took were catch and shoot. But that's part of the problem, isn't it? He doesn't want to catch and shoot. That's why you draft a SG that actually likes running off screens and giving the ball handler a target rather than standing up top 30 feet away with your hands open calling for the ball... You're "open" because no one cares about you asking for the ball that far away, Dion. SMH
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I don't know if you've watch Kyrie play PG but he doesn't do a lot of passing to open guys on the perimeter. Not entirely Dion's fault...
 
Brandon Price said:
If only most of the shots he took were catch and shoot. But that's part of the problem, isn't it? He doesn't want to catch and shoot. That's why you draft a SG that actually likes running off screens and giving the ball handler a target rather than standing up top 30 feet away with your hands open calling for the ball... You're "open" because no one cares about you asking for the ball that far away, Dion. SMH
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That is on the coach, he is not taking advantage of players skill sets. Also, someone needs to pass him the ball in the right positions for him to properly catch and shoot.
 
Dion Waiters is not a knockdown shooter and he doesn't excel at creating shots for himself without the ball, he rarely cuts and he rarely drifts along with the ball handler's movement, setting up for a kickout. He's at the top of the key the vast majority of his minutes. He's a rhythm player and he likes to dribble into his offense.

This was all well know before he was drafted.
 
Brandon Price said:
Dion Waiters is not a knockdown shooter and he doesn't excel at creating shots for himself without the ball, he rarely cuts and he rarely drifts along with the ball handler's movement, setting up for a lockout. He's at the top of the key the vast majority of his minutes. He's a rhythm player and he likes to dribble into his offense.

This was all well know before he was drafted.
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While I agree that's what he thinks he is, stats completely disagree.
 
Brandon Price said:
Dion Waiters is not a knockdown shooter and he doesn't excel at creating shots for himself without the ball, he rarely cuts and he rarely drifts along with the ball handler's movement, setting up for a lockout. He's at the top of the key the vast majority of his minutes. He's a rhythm player and he likes to dribble into his offense.

This was all well know before he was drafted.
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Well, we just went over his catch and shoot percentages 2 posts ago.

I am not sure if Dion is cutting off plays and going to the top of the key or Is that something coach Brown is asking from him.
 
stycool24 said:
Well, we just went over his catch and shoot percentages 2 posts ago.
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I'm curious what knockdown shooters he could come up with that don't shoot catch and shoot shots better than Dion. Kevin Durant? 51.6% eFG% (to Dion's 60.9%). Obviously people defend Durant differently, but Dion is pretty darn solid catching and shooting.

Steph Curry is 63.9%. Not too shabby for Dion to be that close to arguably the best shooter in this generation.
 
I've watched Dion very closely in almost every game this season. I thought prior to the season he was going to make a big leap.

He is one of the worst guards I have ever seen when it comes to playing off the ball. I went through the last 10 games and counted possessions where he does not have the ball to initiate the offense.

There are between 5 and 20 (twenty) times per game where he does not move from his position for at least 14 seconds. He literally stands still doing nothing if he does not have the ball. There are countless times where he does not know how to simply move into an open space created by the movement of the ball and his teammates where he could have an opening for an easy shot.

I really can't figure out how someone at the NBA level does not understand this simple basketball concept.
 
Zen said:
I've watched Dion very closely in every almost game this season. I thought prior to the season he was going to make a big leap.

He is one of the worst guards I have ever seen when it comes to playing off the ball. I went through the last 10 games on and counted possessions where he does not have the ball to initiate the offense.

There are between 5 and 20 (twenty) times per game where he does not move from his position for at least 14 seconds. He literally stands still doing nothing if he does not have the ball. There are countless times where he does not know how to simply move into an open space created by the movement of the ball and his teammates where he could have an opening for an easy shot.

I really can't figure out how someone at the NBA level does not understand this simple basketball concept.
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This. With all the shit Kyrie has been thrown with about being a ball hog, he does a good job locating open spaces and cutting at the right time. Him and Deng are the only players on our team that understands that concept innately.
 
Brandon Price said:
Dion Waiters is not a knockdown shooter
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Except he is. Both stats and visuals can confirm this. If you hit Dion when he's wide open, he's one of the better shooters on the team.

There are many complaints to be made about Dion. His spot-up shooting is not one of them.
 
Brandon Price said:
If only most of the shots he took were catch and shoot. But that's part of the problem, isn't it? He doesn't want to catch and shoot. That's why you draft a SG that actually likes running off screens and giving the ball handler a target rather than standing up top 30 feet away with your hands open calling for the ball... You're "open" because no one cares about you asking for the ball that far away, Dion. SMH
Click to expand...

This is what irks me the most. Did the Cavs even scout Dion? Was he a catch and shoot guy at Syracuse? No. And now that is what we want him to be? I don't even know why we drafted him if our plan was for him to catch and shoot.
 
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