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Gordon Hayward Safari

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gourimoko said:
The box score guesstimate is good because it makes an argument more real.. Doesn't have to be accurate, but it gives another person the ability to see what you see.
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But that's almost impossible to predict given that it's going to be under a new coach running a new offense that none of these guys have been in before. The coach may use them differently depending on how the team meshes, so whatever number gets tossed out is rather meaningless in a vacuum. Plus, the box score alone -- as you yourself have pointed out many times in relying on advanced stats -- really doesn't do a great job of measuring a player's impact anyway.

But if you want to focus on box scores, then you need to either establish a baseline, or use relative comparisons. Otherwise, you have absolutely no idea how people are accounting for the impact of other factors in coming up with this projected box score. i.e., "what kind of stat line do you see Hayward putting up versus what Dion puts up?"
 
Cassity14 said:
Public service announcement: Don't make apologies like "sorry if posted," read the thread. It's better for everyone involved.
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well it hadn't been posted so your welcome
 
Let me tell you fellas Hayward is not a max player, watched him 82 games last season. No GM who even slightly dabbles in analytics would pay him that much, because all his efficiency numbers dived last year with greater usage. If a deal is offered it would reek heavily of your owner strong arming the front office which is just an awful way to run a team. It would also leave you no money for a good center, generally the most expensive position.
 
I put this in the other thread as it related to Deng, but it applies to Hayward too:

30 min - Irving
28 min - Waiters
28 min - Hayward
28 min - Wiggins

There are plenty of backcourt/wing minutes for all 4 players (and more). Having four guys like this allows Blatt to cause all sorts of match-up issues and deal with different opposing lineups on the fly. Wiggins and Waiters being on their rookie deals makes this possible (as does having Delly/Harris/Karasev all making peanuts).
 
Gimme Some Mo said:
If you just look at it simply, Hayward isn't worth the max deal. BUT.... if it is true that this is our last chance to spend cap money, then he is pretty much the best available option for us if we aren't getting a star free agent.
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The argument is somewhat akin to when the Heat made a (then) ridiculously high offer to Hot Rod Williams. It clearly was more than he was worth, in the sense that it was above what players of his talent were normally paid. But with binding contracts and a salary cap, there isn't a free market that permits perfect efficiency. The Cavs ponied up all that money -- despite it being "overpayment" -- simply because they couldn't afford to lose him.

My question is this. If Hayward is their best opportunity to land a quality FA, and the alternative is that we don't sign anyone above the level of a C.J. Miles, are the Cavs better off making that deal, or just sitting pat with what we have for next season?
 
We need Winnersville to falsely report that he is following Hayward to a local Chipotle and then vanish when asked for pics.
 
Saor said:
These sorts of things are so hard to predict without knowing what the roster will look like.

I will say that I don't view him as the second option type player. More like the 3rd.

I'd hope in 4 years, Wiggins would be the second option on this team or even better, some sort of big man.

I just really like Hayward's skill set for this team and for Blatt's offense.

I'm not a Dion hater. I'm more of a big Hayward fan.
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I see him as a slightly better Luol Deng. He will not be in the same mold as Deng, not quite the defender, but a better shooter, scorer, and play maker. I also think Hayward can have a bigger impact than Deng on the right team. In 4 years, I do not think 20/5/5 shooting 45/38/80+ is by any means out of the question.
 
Gordon made valid points in that interview though. No one wants to play in an empty arena. Would probably just feel awkward or weird.

It's not like he slighted Cleveland or anything. I think that's a non-issue.
 
Zen said:
We need Winnersville to falsely report that he is following Hayward to a local Chipotle and then vanish when asked for pics.
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"I can't take a picture. I have my burrito in one hand and my drink in the other. Sorry guys."
 
jwhitacre13 said:
I put this in the other thread as it related to Deng, but it applies to Hayward too:

30 min - Irving
28 min - Waiters
28 min - Hayward
28 min - Wiggins

There are plenty of backcourt/wing minutes for all 4 players (and more). Having four guys like this allows Blatt to cause all sorts of match-up issues and deal with different opposing lineups on the fly. Wiggins and Waiters being on their rookie deals makes this possible (as does having Delly/Harris/Karasev all making peanuts).
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You're okay with paying 15 million to a guy playing 28 minutes per game? I'm sure as hell not.

If we get Hayward and roll out a 1,2,3 of Kyrie/Hayward/Wiggins I'd want Dion to be moved to bolster our frontcourt, specifically the center position. Then again I don't want Hayward in the first place for 15 million but if that happens it should be the move that sets everything else in motion.
 
Cassity14 said:
"I can't take a picture. I have my burrito in one hand and my drink in the other. Sorry guys."
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He was obviously using his dick to write the messages for the board. Give the guy a break.
 
Cassius X 1965 said:
You're okay with paying 15 million to a guy playing 28 minutes per game? I'm sure as hell not.

If we get Hayward and roll out a 1,2,3 of Kyrie/Hayward/Wiggins I'd want Dion to be moved to bolster our frontcourt, specifically the center position. Then again I don't want Hayward in the first place for 15 million but if that happens it should be the move that sets everything else in motion.
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I don't know why the guy did the minutes like that. He's only using 96 between the 4 of them. There are 96 minutes at PG and SG alone. Add in SF which is where either Hayward or Wiggins would see the majority of their minutes, and you'd be more likely to see Irving around 35, Waiters at 32, Hayward at 32, and Wiggins at 30 while still having 15 minutes available to Karasev or whoever you'd like in there.
 
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