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Andrew Wiggins

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I think Gilbert may be the one throwing it out and pushing for Love. Maybe not. Getting LeBron certainly put them into "push for a title" mode - and I can't really blame them. There is a bit of a risk involved if Love is just saying he wants to go to Cleveland as a means of leaving Minnesota. I don't think that's the case. They see Love as a way to go into the stratosphere quickly. The injury to George further opens the window.

Yeah I can really see this being Gilbert's doing. And with what happened with Bennett last year he may be looking at Wiggins threw that prism and massively underrating what he can do for us, even in the next couple of years (to say nothing of his long term potential).
 
Yeah I can really see this being Gilbert's doing. And with what happened with Bennett last year he may be looking at Wiggins threw that prism and massively underrating what he can do for us, even in the next couple of years (to say nothing of his long term potential).

I think Gilbert just sees an opportunity. Griffin saw the same opportunity, but he saw it after next season. I'd guess that Griffin picked up the Haywood contract to allow the Cavs to pursue Love or Aldridge next year if they felt it necessary. They probably intended on signing one or more bigger name players this year, but things changed a bit when they got LeBron to come home.
 
yes griffin has been involved in Love talks before he was even gm also allluding multiple times to making a "major" move outside of lebron, yet Gilbert has completely taken griffin by surprise.. makes sense:werd:
 
The NBA does not have unlimited cap space. 3 max players with 2 often injured and not known for their defense and a bunch of scraps does not create championships when playing against the west. Why are they taking the Miami approach knowing it is not sustainable with 2 of the top 3 not know for defense.

That's what Bird Rights are for.

Also, the Kevin Love being a garbage defender myth has been debunked about 14 times already. Irving can learn how to play defense. It's not impossible. LeBron wasn't a very good defender once upon a time, either.

As for injuries, I think Irving was held out way longer than necessary for the sake of tanking. Love played 77 games last year.
 
Why is it that wanting to see the #1 pick play on our team with Lebron is crazy? What if some of us think Wiggins is our long term 3 and Lebron is our long term 4? Kid has huge potential, and is there any better mentor to get him there?

Nothing wrong with wanting to see them play together -- could be fun to watch. I think the problem is that Wiggins' timeline for coming close to reaching his potential - assuming he does -- puts him at a point where LBJ's game will be declining, perhaps noticeably. LBJ already has played more minutes than anyone his age in NBA history. We're in completely uncharted territory in terms of LBJ's trajectory going forward.

And the other part is Wiggins reaching that potential. Wiggins is a physical freak with a nice but predictable spin move, a decent shot, and a lot of potential defensively. But he is lacking a lot of offensive skills, and for those who point at his age and say "well, that's to be expected", Jabari Parker somehow managed to develop much better offensive skills while being even younger. That makes it natural to wonder why didn't/couldn't Wiggins have developed his offensive skills like Parker developed his. That's not to say I'd rather have Parker, but it is to point out that there is a legitimate basis to challenge the assumption that Wiggins will actually reach that offensive potential some see for him. That may turn out to be a pipe dream.

I think some Wiggins' fans have slipped, perhaps unintentionally, into thinking of him as the natural replacement for LBJ in terms of being able to carry a team. I think that's really stretching it, because one thing I haven't seen at all from Wiggins is court vision/basketball I.Q.. As much of a physical freak as LBJ was coming out of high school, his ability to see the floor and understand the game as a high school kid was absolutely remarkable. That ability not only helps him see/create offensive opportunities for himself, but to see/create offensive opportunities for teammates as well. And it's that skill that really gives him the incredible ability to carry a team. Wiggins has shows no sign, at all, of having that kind of court vision/b-ball I.Q. Can he potentially develop that? Sure, but that's no more likely than any random schmuck who was just drafted developing it.

If Wiggins is in the trade, the Cavs are only bidding against themselves.

Well, people said the same thing about the Lakers and Pau, and he ended up walking with them getting nothing out of it. Minny doesn't have to trade him right now, no matter what some think may be the wisest course for them. They have to consider the fan dynamic on their end, and trading Love now for less than they expected to receive may simply be something they are unwilling to do as a franchise.

This isn't a no-reserve auction where the player must be traded to the highest bidder right now. Love is more valuable to the Cavs right now than he would be as a late-season addition to the team at the deadline. No training camp, little time to work out the kinks with his new teammates, little time for the coach to figure out rotations and how we may have to change our defense, etc..
 
Yeah I can really see this being Gilbert's doing. And with what happened with Bennett last year he may be looking at Wiggins threw that prism and massively underrating what he can do for us, even in the next couple of years (to say nothing of his long term potential).

I don't think this is ownership meddling. I think it is an accurate assessment of basketball skills by the team's coaches and front office.

I watched the summer league games and came away with the impression that hype train for this kid departed reality station before he played his first college game and never really came back into town. Even though he can race down the floor and jump out of the gym, Wiggins has limitations right now that prevent him from being a "can't miss" prospect. Wiggins will likely be a contributor in the NBA, but he's not going to have much of an impact this year, it isn't clear that he'll ever be an impact player.

Why? Wiggins could be a game changer on defense in a few years, maybe even all defensive team. But there is a learning curve that even great players struggle with to learn NBA defenses. How many players under the age of 22 make the all defensive team? It takes time to learn the tricks. Maybe he's an above average defender in his first year. He's still going to have lapses that give up easy buckets. It takes a while until he's got a chance at being impact player on defense even if he's extremely gifted.

On offense, I am sure that Wiggins is going to be limited in the near term. He's got 1 dribble dunks and set shooting ahead of him for a while. It's not like he's got a solid skill set and he just needs to figure out how adapt his game to work at NBA level. Wiggins needs to learn how to change direction while dribbling. You can't be a ball handler in a pick and roll if you can't turn a corner. Wiggins needs to learn how to use his left hand. You are not going to beat an NBA defender in isolation if he knows which direction you are going to go. His step back jumper? It ain't Tim Misny when it's his primary move with the ball. Wiggins is physically gifted young and certainly should improve, but he's not advanced on the skills front. He's not even average on the skills front. Needs a lot of work if he's ever going to be anything more than a role player on offense.

So in that respect, I think the team is accurately judging Wiggins' current ability and max potential. If you can get a real, honest to goodness impact player for the kid, you do it.
 
Man... I feel sorry for this kid. I'll root for him and the Wolves. I hope he gets a nice ovation for his first visit.
 
Nothing wrong with wanting to see them play together -- could be fun to watch. I think the problem is that Wiggins' timeline for coming close to reaching his potential - assuming he does -- puts him at a point where LBJ's game will be declining, perhaps noticeably. LBJ already has played more minutes than anyone his age in NBA history. We're in completely uncharted territory in terms of LBJ's trajectory going forward.

And the other part is Wiggins reaching that potential. Wiggins is a physical freak with a nice but predictable spin move, a decent shot, and a lot of potential defensively. But he is lacking a lot of offensive skills, and for those who point at his age and say "well, that's to be expected", Jabari Parker somehow managed to develop much better offensive skills while being even younger. That makes it natural to wonder why didn't/couldn't Wiggins have developed his offensive skills like Parker developed his. That's not to say I'd rather have Parker, but it is to point out that there is a legitimate basis to challenge the assumption that Wiggins will actually reach that offensive potential some see for him. That may turn out to be a pipe dream.

I think some Wiggins' fans have slipped, perhaps unintentionally, into thinking of him as the natural replacement for LBJ in terms of being able to carry a team. I think that's really stretching it, because one thing I haven't seen at all from Wiggins is court vision/basketball I.Q.. As much of a physical freak as LBJ was coming out of high school, his ability to see the floor and understand the game as a high school kid was absolutely remarkable. That ability not only helps him see/create offensive opportunities for himself, but to see/create offensive opportunities for teammates as well. And it's that skill that really gives him the incredible ability to carry a team. Wiggins has shows no sign, at all, of having that kind of court vision/b-ball I.Q. Can he potentially develop that? Sure, but that's no more likely than any random schmuck who was just drafted developing it.



Well, people said the same thing about the Lakers and Pau, and he ended up walking with them getting nothing out of it. Minny doesn't have to trade him right now, no matter what some think may be the wisest course for them. They have to consider the fan dynamic on their end, and trading Love now for less than they expected to receive may simply be something they are unwilling to do as a franchise.

This isn't a no-reserve auction where the player must be traded to the highest bidder right now. Love is more valuable to the Cavs right now than he would be as a late-season addition to the team at the deadline. No training camp, little time to work out the kinks with his new teammates, little time for the coach to figure out rotations and how we may have to change our defense, etc..

Comparing Parker's offensive skills to Wiggins is not really fair to Wiggins. I cannot think of any freshman in the last 10 years besides Kevin Durant that have developed such a refined offensive game. Can you even say Melo and Wade were at the same level as Parker offensively? What about Lebron after his rookie year?
 
I think some Wiggins' fans have slipped, perhaps unintentionally, into thinking of him as the natural replacement for LBJ in terms of being able to carry a team. I think that's really stretching it, because one thing I haven't seen at all from Wiggins is court vision/basketball I.Q.. As much of a physical freak as LBJ was coming out of high school, his ability to see the floor and understand the game as a high school kid was absolutely remarkable. That ability not only helps him see/create offensive opportunities for himself, but to see/create offensive opportunities for teammates as well. And it's that skill that really gives him the incredible ability to carry a team. Wiggins has shows no sign, at all, of having that kind of court vision/b-ball I.Q. Can he potentially develop that? Sure, but that's no more likely than any random schmuck who was just drafted developing it.



Well, people said the same thing about the Lakers and Pau, and he ended up walking with them getting nothing out of it. Minny doesn't have to trade him right now, no matter what some think may be the wisest course for them. They have to consider the fan dynamic on their end, and trading Love now for less than they expected to receive may simply be something they are unwilling to do as a franchise.

This isn't a no-reserve auction where the player must be traded to the highest bidder right now. Love is more valuable to the Cavs right now than he would be as a late-season addition to the team at the deadline. No training camp, little time to work out the kinks with his new teammates, little time for the coach to figure out rotations and how we may have to change our defense, etc..


You're not watching him close enough. His court vision isn't bad at all, it will not limit him.
Also, no one smart expected him to ever carry the team like Lebron, you really can't compare a rookie's court vision to Lebron's. It's not fair to any rookie.

I can see reasons why the Cavs would make this move now, but the Wolves shouldn't get everything it looks like we're giving them (more than the Clips gave for Chris Paul)... We're getting a bad deal here imo.
 
Comparing Parker's offensive skills to Wiggins is not really fair to Wiggins. I cannot think of any freshman in the last 10 years besides Kevin Durant that have developed such a refined offensive game. Can you even say Melo and Wade were at the same level as Parker offensively? What about Lebron after his rookie year?

Huh. Irving has the most advanced skillset I've ever seen coming out of college. As a rookie he was able to post up, hit floaters, use the glass, use his left. Then Melo was also very skilled: from the beginning he was very comfortable with his back to the basket or facing up. You already mentioned Durant.
 
Man... I feel sorry for this kid. I'll root for him and the Wolves. I hope he gets a nice ovation for his first visit.

Agreed. Would be nice. But the truth is, he'll be a better player and person for it. Must be so incredibly difficult to be in his shoes right now, but what better way to adapt to the NBA than being thrown in the uncontrollable deep-end before you've barely left the starting gates.
 
Huh. Irving has the most advanced skillset I've ever seen coming out of college. As a rookie he was able to post up, hit floaters, use the glass, use his left. Then Melo was also very skilled: from the beginning he was very comfortable with his back to the basket or facing up. You already mentioned Durant.

Kyrie flashed a post up game like Parker's? In college where posting up a PG is pretty much unheard of? I'm not talking about what they did as a rookie. I'm talking about their one year in college. Melo's offensive game was not as refined as Parker. You can say Irving may have been but it was not as consistent due to sitting out a large portion of his freshmen year. Again, I would only put Durant at least on Parker's level and everyone else was a notch below. So by saying that Wiggin's can't develop an offensive game like Parker is just ludicrous. Lebron still doesn't have the offensive game like Durant so we should knock him for it as well?
 
Kyrie flashed a post up game like Parker's? In college where posting up a PG is pretty much unheard of? I'm not talking about what they did as a rookie. I'm talking about their one year in college. Melo's offensive game was not as refined as Parker. You can say Irving may have been but it was not as consistent due to sitting out a large portion of his freshmen year. Again, I would only put Durant at least on Parker's level and everyone else was a notch below. So by saying that Wiggin's can't develop an offensive game like Parker is just ludicrous. Lebron still doesn't have the offensive game like Durant so we should knock him for it as well?

Oh come on... Parker is not close to KD's level in college. Not from an efficiency standpoint either.
 

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