The Brian Hoyer thread...

AZ has his claws in another one.... going to grab some popcorn...

Ocelot said:

Shouldn't we be looking at more than just 'if he continues winning' when discussing this from a long term perspective? Does the level of QB play that's been shown so far lead people to believe that winning is sustainable?

Again I will state that Hoyer is almost certainly the best option on the roster, but to say he's played mistake free ball is not true. He hasn't turned the ball over (although his int rate as a starter with the Browns also does not look to be sustainable) but he has taken costly sacks (Pitt) and badly missed receivers. The completion percentage and yards per attempt both paint him in an unfavorable light despite playing two porous defenses.

What's wrong with saying Hoyer should continue to start until a better option presents itself, be that through the draft, free agency, a trade, or whatever.

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From a long term, ie next year, and 3 years, a good team always drafts a ab somewhere every other team. So this doesnt mean Manziel or others are drafted.

Remember, Russell Wilson was a 3rd round pick. Washington picked cousins in i believe the 4th or so round the same year they picked RG3. Hoyer doesnt stop us from looking at improving the depth of the position which could lead to a change in starter.

heck who knows, maybe in a yer Manziel develops and shows he is a better option when Hoyer gets hurt.

Lee said:

But the Hoyer hate seems crazy to me.

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Seems crazier to me to be seeing something that isn't there.

Maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen anyone "hating" on Hoyer. What I've read are folks saying that he's done well so far managing games, but has shown weaknesses that make his potential as a long-term starter questionable. What does seem odd is that when someone points out specific criticism, the poster is getting attacked and the criticisms are being ignored.

Everyone happy with the way his long ball looks? Everyone thrilled with shoulda been INT's against Pitt? Is throwing balls at the feet of, over the head of, or behind an open receiver something that doesn't bother anyone?

I really hope he improves on some of those things, because keeping him in would be nice. I don't expect his arm strength to improve, but maybe his accuracy will. Maybe he's not confident in his knee yet, so he's not getting a good base when he throws. It's just a real concern to me, because I think you have to get more out of a QB than that if you want to be more than just a mediocre team in this league.

I think the Hoyer hate was latent in the Manziel thread for the past few months, then was absolutely present in the game threads. I was a vocal supporter of Hoyer in the first preseason game, then shut my mouth until last Sunday because I was elated the Browns were entertaining again and had no idea why I was still reading posts that were critical and suggested Manziel should still start after the bye week.

That said, we are still living in a world where the opponent doubles Miles Austin in passing situations and forces Jim Dray and Gary Barnridge to beat the defense in order to move the chains. That sounds like an Arena lineup. In fact, our most dangerous weapon, Hawkins, was an Arena League veteran who accepted a scout position with the Lions before getting a break with Cincinnati.

Randolphkeys said:

I think the Hoyer hate was latent in the Manziel thread for the past few months, then was absolutely present in the game threads. I was a vocal supporter of Hoyer in the first preseason game, then shut my mouth until last Sunday because I was elated the Browns were entertaining again and had no idea why I was still reading posts that were critical and suggested Manziel should still start after the bye week.

That said, we are still living in a world where the opponent doubles Miles Austin in passing situations and forces Jim Dray and Gary Barnridge to beat the defense in order to move the chains. That sounds like an Arena lineup. In fact, our most dangerous weapon, Hawkins, was an Arena League veteran who accepted a scout position with the Lions before getting a break with Cincinnati.

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Keep your Gary Barnidge hate out of this thread.

I dont think he is playing "mistake Free " football but guys like trent dilfer, vince young Alex smith, Brad Johnson, Jim Mcmahon, Earl Morrel, ETC. you can win in the NFL with a mediocre quarterback historically.

O, Pioneer.

I agree, hands off the great hide tanner from Kentucky. But Jim Dray sounds like the fat white guy in his mid-40s who delivered my pizza last Saturday night.

Jim Dray definitely has his name next to the word "handyman" in your small rural town's angie's list section.

Randolphkeys said:

I agree, hands off the great hide tanner from Kentucky. But Jim Dray sounds like the fat white guy in his mid-40s who delivered my pizza last Saturday night.

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That would be me, i lost my 200k a year job.

Lee said:

That would be me, i lost my 200k a year job.

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Jim Dray is definitely Lee's hastily made up alias until he gets a corporate job back.

"Hey Lee, did I see you using food stamps to buy Velveeta and a 30 pack of Keystone Light at Safeway yesterday?"

"Nope, that was my neighbor...Jim Dray. Everyone says he looks exactly like me."

I don't get the whole "our QB is only average to solid, so that means our team is mediocre too" argument..

Russell Wilson just won a Super Bowl living off of not making mistakes, having a great running game, terrific play calling, and a top of the line D.. yet, because we're the Browns, that can't happen with us?

Wilson has averaged all of 25 passing attempts per game throughout his career. Would he have the same amount of success if he doesn't had to throw more often?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we're as good as Seattle in any way, shape, or form, or that Hoyer is better than Russell Wilson, but if you build your team the right way, you don't need a top of the line QB who throws 40 times per game to win it all.

Randolphkeys said:

Jim Dray is definitely Lee's hastily made up alias until he gets a corporate job back.

"Hey Lee, did I see you using food stamps to buy Velveeta and a 30 pack of Keystone Light at Safeway yesterday?"

"Nope, that was my neighbor...Jim Dray. Everyone says he looks exactly like me."

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It was actually Jim's dad.....Dr Dray.

MoFlo said:

I don't get the whole "our QB is only average to solid, so that means our team is mediocre too" argument..

Russell Wilson just won a Super Bowl living off of not making mistakes, having a great running game, terrific play calling, and a top of the line D.. yet, because we're the Browns, that can't happen with us?

Wilson has averaged all of 25 passing attempts per game throughout his career. Would he have the same amount of success if he doesn't had to throw more often?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we're as good as Seattle in any way, shape, or form, or that Hoyer is better than Russell Wilson, but if you build your team the right way, you don't need a top of the line QB who throws 40 times per game to win it all.

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When the Browns can get a QB who can be as efficient as Wilson in those 25 attempts (based off last year's numbers), then we can tout him as a potential Super Bowl caliber quarterback.

Right now, they've got nothing close.

MoFlo said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we're as good as Seattle in any way, shape, or form, or that Hoyer is better than Russell Wilson, but if you build your team the right way, you don't need a top of the line QB who throws 40 times per game to win it all.

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This is a very good point. I believe Farmer is building this team so that the QB is NOT the lynch pin of the entire team. The QB position is incredibly important but as Seattle proved last year that you don't need the prototypical elite QB to win it all. It's not easy to find those elite guys but if you can build your entire team and find a good enough QB you can be a championship contender.