The Brian Hoyer thread...

[The Human Q-Tip]

More than the amount that have elite QBs.

Okay, which teams do you think have great defenses and good running games?

 

[SixPACK]

Having a QB whose line "isn't horrific" does not seem to me to be a good enough reason to pass on a QB in the first round.

BTW, just so you don't think I've got something against Hoyer, he grew up on my street, which wasn't a big one so I saw him a lot. Sentimentally, I'd love for him to succeed. But I don't think sentiment should be the guide when the primary concern is winning.

So far in his "career", has he not proven he can win?!

I am guessing you want Marcus or hope to god you don't want Winston. What would you give up for Mariota next year? If the Browns decide Johnny isn't the answer.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Okay, which teams do you think have great defenses and good running games?

Texans
Ravens (prior to Rice going bye-bye, at least)
Niners
Seahawks
Bengals
Cardinals
Bills
Chiefs (at least as of last year...they lost some key guys to injury early this year)
Panthers

There are some other teams that might have good to great defenses this year, but it's too early to tell:
Browns - Looked good after that disastrous first half in game one.
Vikings - Well, now that Peterson might be gone their run game will probably suck, but still.
Saints - Did a major defensive overhaul in the off-season, but the results haven't been there yet.
Rams - Seem pretty loaded on defense, but the results aren't there yet.
Bucs - Have looked pretty good defensively, but their offense blows.

And that's not including teams like the Bears and Steelers, both of which fell into the defense/running mold until falling off a couple of years ago due to age/injury.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

So far in his "career", has he not proven he can win?!

He has proven that he can win, and he has proven that he can lose. What's your point?

I am guessing you want Marcus or hope to god you don't want Winston. What would you give up for Mariota next year? If the Browns decide Johnny isn't the answer.

No, and I have to say this penchant for identifying people as being pimps/haters for specific players is pretty fucking tiresome. I am not a "Manziel fanboy", and I have zero preference for any of the college QB's at this point. Honestly, I don't want a lot of teams other than my own, OSU, and occasionally another good game if it is on.

I am talking about passing on any QB the front office thinks has reasonable potential to be a franchise QB. I'm not one of these guys who assumes that my predictions about how specific players will perform in the future are infallible, so generally, I give the FO the benefit of the doubt. And if the FO sees Mariota or any of those other available QB's as having reasonable potential to be a franchise guy in the first round, I hope to god we don't pass over them just because our current QB is "not horrific".

And I have to say that the idea that you can win with a great defense and good running games means that you pass on a franchise QB if one is available is lunacy. Teams don't choose not to have a franchise QB. The only reason any team doesn't have one is because they haven't been able to get one.

 

[MRMsix6]

I wonder if Hoyer has that on his business card.

Brian "not horrific" Hoyer.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Texans
Ravens (prior to Rice going bye-bye, at least)
Niners
Seahawks
Bengals
Cardinals
Bills
Chiefs (at least as of last year...they lost some key guys to injury early this year)
Panthers

There are some other teams that might have good to great defenses this year, but it's too early to tell:
Browns - Looked good after that disastrous first half in game one.
Vikings - Well, now that Peterson might be gone their run game will probably suck, but still.
Saints - Did a major defensive overhaul in the off-season, but the results haven't been there yet.
Rams - Seem pretty loaded on defense, but the results aren't there yet.
Bucs - Have looked pretty good defensively, but their offense blows.

And that's not including teams like the Bears and Steelers, both of which fell into the defense/running mold until falling off a couple of years ago due to age/injury.

I think we have different definitions of "great", and it is way too soon to call any defense "great" based on only two games this year anyway. So going back to last year, there were only six teams that held their opponents to an average of less than 20 pts. a game, and only three that held them to less than 19.0. I'd personally draw the "great" line at perhaps giving up less than 300 yards per game. The model we're talking about winning a Super Bowl is the Seahawks from last year, who gave up about 14.5 ppg, and 274 total ypg. 49'ers had the only other defense I'd consider "great" last year, and they gave up about 15 points and 300 ypg. The Dilfer-quarterbacked 2000 Ravens gave up a ridiculous 10.7 ppg, and 247 y/g.

Those kind of dominating defenses are incredibly rare. And in contrast, you've got (by definition) 10 top 10 QB's each year.

Anyway, this isn't an either/or decision when building a team. Are you saying you'd bypass a franchise QB in the draft to draft someone else, because that other position is more valuable than a franchise QB?

 

[Triplethreat]

Hoyer's command in the huddle and leadership are easily his best attributes. He gets the guys up to play for him.

Looking forward to Sunday.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Anyway, this isn't an either/or decision when building a team. Are you saying you'd bypass a franchise QB in the draft to draft someone else, because that other position is more valuable than a franchise QB?

Of course not. I said above that finding a franchise quarterback is rare, which is why the smart money is on building a good defense and finding a solid QB who can keep you in games. That appears to be a formula that can lead to playoff berths. That doesn't mean you should pass up a potential franchise QB in the draft if you think there is one available. It simply means that you shouldn't bank on it, and thus should try to build a team that can win you games without that franchise guy under center.

 

[SixPACK]

He has proven that he can win, and he has proven that he can lose. What's your point?

You said the primary concern should be about winning. He has proven he can. He has proven he can stay in games. Let the year go by and see how he plays and then we can make a decision. Of course you want your QB to progress. I am not sitting here saying, "As long as this shitbrain can put out just about average stats/decisions, we have a winner!" But if he continually shows progress and doesn't lead our team to a losing streak, you keep him in there.

I am talking about passing on any QB the front office thinks has reasonable potential to be a franchise QB. I'm not one of these guys who assumes that my predictions about how specific players will perform in the future are infallible, so generally, I give the FO the benefit of the doubt. And if the FO sees Mariota or any of those other available QB's as having reasonable potential to be a franchise guy in the first round, I hope to god we don't pass over them just because our current QB is "not horrific".

And I have to say that the idea that you can win with a great defense and good running games means that you pass on a franchise QB if one is available is lunacy. Teams don't choose not to have a franchise QB. The only reason any team doesn't have one is because they haven't been able to get one.

Back to the great point of..we have no idea how anybody is going to turn out. We apparently thought/think Manziel is going to be great. NE had no idea Brady was going to be a great QB from the 6th round. GB drafted Rodgers and had him sit 3 years but had no idea he was going to come out and dominate like he did. I HOPE Manziel takes the Rodgers route, can sit and learn and show progress throughout the season and be our QB of the future, so we don't have to waste MORE picks on one.

Draft Day made it look so easy. Keyword for both Hoyer & Manziel......progress.

Edit: I nominate Q-Tip for the RCF Ban Bowl v2. I feel like he would of been a good one!

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

You said the primary concern should be about winning. He has proven he can. He has proven he can stay in games. Let the year go by and see how he plays and then we can make a decision. Of course you want your QB to progress. I am not sitting here saying, "As long as this shitbrain can put out just about average stats/decisions, we have a winner!" But if he continually shows progress and doesn't lead our team to a losing streak, you keep him in there.

But...that's been the whole point all along. I'm fine with keeping him in there if he continually shows progress. That's the smart thing to do. I'm not fine playing him the whole season if he plays the entire season at his current level of play. I thought I'd made that clear in at least 5 different posts.

Back to the great point of..we have no idea how anybody is going to turn out. We apparently thought/think Manziel is going to be great. NE had no idea Brady was going to be a great QB from the 6th round. GB drafted Rodgers and had him sit 3 years but had no idea he was going to come out and dominate like he did. I HOPE Manziel takes the Rodgers route, can sit and learn and show progress throughout the season and be our QB of the future, so we don't have to waste MORE picks on one.

I'm not saying it is a complete crapshoot, or that you can't say "Guy X has a better chance of succeeding than Guy Y". There are reasonable projections, and unreasonable ones. I'm talking about the people who are absolutists in terms of "this guy will be the next Peyton Manning", or who take first round picks and say they're 100% sure to fail. That's basically a fan expecting others to value his opinion over that of an FO, and generally, that's not where I'm going to put my money.

Edit: I nominate Q-Tip for the RCF Ban Bowl v2. I feel like he would of been a good one!

Hey, feel free to PM the mods and say I should be banned.

 

[SixPACK]

Hey, feel free to PM the mods and say I should be banned.

Haha, no man. It was a thing we had a while back where 64 of us were in a bracket and pretty much went to town on the other one, where loser would be banned for life. It ended up falling through.

I meant it as you seem like you would of done good in it.

 

[A Squared]

Having problems embedding the video but I thought this was pretty funny.

www.youtube.com/embed/3Ns8gngxQ0Q

 

[Randolphkeys]

LOL, those Ignatius kids need more homework to keep them occupied.

 

[davedugan43]

Gotta say, Hoyer impressed me last week.

 

[Maximus]

I wonder if Hoyer has that on his business card.

Brian "not horrific" Hoyer.

His receiving corp should have "we are horrific" on theirs...