Season repentance and forgiveness – The Truth and Reconciliation Commission

gourimoko said:

Hindsight bias.

Look I know you are totally joking, but this really proves the point, who saw JR Smith turning his entire career around in Cleveland?

He wasn't an asset in that trade he was considered a necessary throw-in, New York was glad to send him packing and Smith knew it.

My assessment of him at the time was based on watching him play in Denver and New York. I felt he would be traded at the end of the season and that would be that. Did he prove us wrong? Surely, but does that mean our assessments made, at the time, and with the information available were wrong? No.

And that's pretty much my point. We shouldn't need to repent for intelligent commentary and reasonable analysis, whether or not our predictions come about or not. To that end, the gist of this thread is really to suggest that we should simply trust in our betters and confess our ignorance and inability of making this kind of commentary - but what kind of forum would that be?

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No Regard said:

I get your point, but then again, it's just a game. I just don't get why one should be so provoked about the degree of other people's fandom. It's not like you have to swear an oath to support this team.

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gourimoko said:

Hindsight bias.

Look I know you are totally joking, but this really proves the point, who saw JR Smith turning his entire career around in Cleveland?

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gourimoko said:

And that's pretty much my point. We shouldn't need to repent for intelligent commentary and reasonable analysis, whether or not our predictions come about or not. To that end, the gist of this thread is really to suggest that we should simply trust in our betters and confess our ignorance and inability of making this kind of commentary - but what kind of forum would that be?

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cavsfever said:

Hey, I totally agree with you that forums are all about speaking your mind and no one should have any fear of speaking their mind. However...no offense, I love your posts, but I looked back at your midseason posts, and I have to inform you....YOU TOTALLY SHIT ALL OVER THE GREATEST SINGLE TRADE IN CAVALIERS HISTORY! If we win the championship it might go down as the greatest midseason trade in NBA history! And someone is giving you a chance for absolution! Take it, my friend!

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clevelandrox23 said:

Let's say for argument's sake what you are saying is true. If I was David Griffin I'd spend all my energy trying to convince LeBron that trading for Love at that moment in time was not in the best interest for him or the franchise and at the very least they should wait until the price for Love came down.

Perhaps lying to James would be an awful way to start a new relationship but the Cavs could have just blamed the lack of a move on Griffin and fired him later on. We didn't owe Griffin anything and he was arguably not even qualified for the job to begin with.

The fact of the matter is that LeBron committed to Cleveland until he retires by writing that letter. He would not have raged quit if the Cavs did not make the move for Love.

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No Regard said:

That, or perhaps to just stop being so overly concerned about other posters meeting your artificial criteria of what's a real fan or not.

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gourimoko said:

I agree 100%....

Advisory: If you don't like nuanced arguments, long-posts, or my posts in general then just skip this one.

At some point during last offseason, objectivity, critical thinking, and rationality were sign-and-traded away for bandwagon groupthink and towel waiving.

During the years where LeBron was in Miami, the actual Cavs fans that were here debated actual basketball; and while no one would deny it is better to have LeBron back for both the city and the team, the level of honest and thoughtful discourse has subsequently taken a noise dive.

So for the moment, let's play along with the game...

For starters, I thought the Kevin Love trade was a bad move (unnecessary), but I'm on record here during the offseason as supporting it the day of Windhorst's report that there was a backroom 5-year deal (which seems to have been a lie).

But even then, the groupthink was so intense that to even make the nuanced argument that maybe this was the right decision at the wrong time would attract hate. That maybe Kevin Love might not be healthy this season? What if he misses the playoffs? What if he leaves, not in this offseason but the next?

Yet these questions were left unanswered, drowned in an unintelligent flood of responses to dilute the very idea.

And consequently and most unfortunately, the Love and Wiggins threads are basically a joke.

One "side" lives in a total fantasy world where Kevin Love is playing today like an All-Star, that he does not have a history of injury, and is a veritable man of steel. And the other "side" lives in a fantasy world where Andrew Wiggins is the second coming of Jesus Christ.

And I will readily admit, I am very much a Wiggins fan, probably his biggest fan on this site; but I still do the trade if I think Love is a Cavalier long-term. But does that mean I'm right? Is that somehow validation for the majority here who supported the trade all along? In saying that, I don't think that opinion is either right or wrong, yet here we are in thread where we're being told to repent for various sins? In essence, to admit to, or more aptly to confess to thinking wrongly.

Fuck outta here...

People in here have differing opinions. Different outlooks on future possibilities. That's why I come to discussion boards - to see the different takes, those different than my own.

I do not come here to immerse myself in an echo-chamber of irrational homerism, rhetoric with the intention of reinforcing false narratives, or the nationalistic aspirations of my own country let alone that of a foreign nation. But it seems like many others do, and I guess that perhaps that's confusing to me.

With that said though, and as bad as it has been, what could possibly be worse than the Love/Wiggins nonsense?

How about not being able to critique the coach in any meaningful way, or, to even ask for objective verifiable proof of his present-day accomplishments without getting blasted with "disagrees" and "old" ratings? How about the continued implications that folks who question Blatt are ignorant, biased, or even (and yes, this has been mentioned numerous times) anti-Semitic.

The asinine comments about him not fucking up regarding the timeouts, not losing the team mid-season, failing to win games without LeBron James, having his offense scrapped, again, the list goes on and on. He does not have the support of our star player - even now at the end of the season - why?

But instead of even entertaining those questions with rational commentary, or even reasonable speculation, very much like any discussion of Kevin Love, we have to prance around these topics as if walking on eggshells, otherwise, we're being overly negative and our inquiries summarily dismissed.

I say this because several well respected members have asked these questions, including a mod, and have been hushed and downrated. And we can't ask these questions without the obligatory "David Blatt is a great coach" comment, or we're seen as having some ulterior motive.

I've noticed this for months and haven't said anything until recently, but now that we have yet another David Blatt thread, now that we're told this is a place for serious discussion, and since I seem to keep getting dragged back in here; then, let's have at it.

IF this were only in one thread I wouldn't say shit; even if it were two or three threads, but it now permeates the board.

Even in the game threads, you will find select non-Cavs fans saying ridiculous statements that may as well amount to "Man, did you see Blatt on that reverse layup?" "I didn't know Blatt had handles like that!" "Without Blatt we'd be sunk!"

"If Blatt gets fired we have no chance at the Finals next year." <- that's a direct quote.

And before the Blatt fans think to take this personally, I said the exact same thing about the Kyrie Irving thread, where a group of long-time posters and even mods, shitted on other long-time posters for having criticized Kyrie.

But I remember being in the minority of posters supporting Irving even while he was quitting on the team, staying out smoking and getting high as fuck almost daily, fucking around at practice, and angling to get his coaches fired.

Yet when things turned around, all of a sudden everyone seemed to have remembered things differently. Now we all love and have always loved Kyrie Irving, and didn't ever question his heart, courage, tenacity or maturity. Now, he's the hometown favorite and anyone who thought or thinks wrongly is labelled a fool. How many seem to have forgotten that a little over a year ago the general consensus on this very board was completely the opposite.... down the memory hole, I guess.

So Blatt fans, don't take this the wrong way, it isn't about you, as this kind of behavior has made itself apparent before. Instead, it's about the idea that we should all align ourselves and conform to one way of thinking - and if we thought wrongly at some point in time then we should "repent" for that. That type of conditioning ruins thoughtful discussion and eliminates critical thinking.

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Pheadrus said:

@gourimoko, you really are a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic, aren’t you?

As I previously responded to you, wrong thread.

Wholly snappin ducks legs, taking the piss out of you is not even fun. It’s too easy. You are not even trying.

For this time only, I shall depart from my usual self and against my better judgment and the advice of the little green men, I shall give you as serious a response as I can muster at this point.
Here comes the serious response. You might want to pay attention.

You just don’t get it. @NoRegard gets it. @blommen gets it. Just about everyone else on this thread gets it.
No matter how much you troll this thread, this is not a thread about Blatt. No matter how hell bent you are on making it so.
Others repented for TT, others for JR, Dion, Shump, Love. The list goes on.
They get it. You don’t.

This thread is different because in contrast to most others devoted to never ending circular one upmanship, this one does the opposite. It provides people with the opportunity to demonstrate their mature capacity for self-reflection, soul searching and humility. Novel, I know. Think of it as a test, a Survivor’s reward challenge, if you wish. It has been said that repentance cannot be demanded nor requested.
And no, tongue in cheek is not a reference to your sexual orientation, although it sounds like it might present a viable financial opportunity.

Now, that might not appeal to you. Thant’s fine. What the fuck are you doing on this thread then? There are dozens of other threads on this forum for you to lurk in. We’ll miss you, but no one is going to judge you for it.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m envious of you. In my heart of hearts I know that I could never be as real a fan as you are. Your sacrifice of the past few years in nothing short of awe inspiring. It will not surprise me the least to learn that you have been granted the keys to the city or at the very least appointed the Guardian of the Order of the Real Fans.

I hope that you understand this thread now (Vegas reports chance is zero). And maybe you have nothing to repent for. In the words of a wise rookie first time NBA Finals coach, who shall remain anonymous - Good For You!

If on the other hand, you still don’t get it, I would, if I were you, seriously consider the possibility of seeking professional help. And get some sun my friend. Vitamin D deficiency is a bitch. You might also want to consider the Aramaic proverb I offered you earlier.

If this is the case, I promise you that despite my fondness of your mischaracterisation and misrepresentation of the arguments of others, I shall not argue with you. No, esteemed colleague. I shall offer you only one more final response:

You win. Happy? Good for you!
And I shall grant you the first ever and only habitation in my ignore list. Please reciprocate

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shoes22 said:

... well that was pretty harsh and condescending.

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gourimoko said:

Wackest attempt at humor I've seen in a long time. Maybe it's a cultural thing, I dunno..

But you and I both know why you made this thread; it was to shit on Cavs fans for not kissing David Blatt's ass. If that wasn't apparent to the mods before, surely it has to be now. And why you felt the need to respond to me, I'll never know, especially since I wasn't addressing you but other long-time posters reading this nonsense.

Again bro, it's too transparent. There needs to be a post / rep limit before randoms can come and make threads. Guy has been a Cavs fan since February and comes and dictates terms?

C'mon....

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Pheadrus said:

You win. Happy? Good for you!
Ignore. Please reciprocate

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Pheadrus said:

@gourimoko, you really are a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic, aren’t you?

As I previously responded to you, wrong thread.

Wholly snappin ducks legs, taking the piss out of you is not even fun. It’s too easy. You are not even trying.

For this time only, I shall depart from my usual self and against my better judgment and the advice of the little green men, I shall give you as serious a response as I can muster at this point.
Here comes the serious response. You might want to pay attention.

You just don’t get it. @NoRegard gets it. @blommen gets it. Just about everyone else on this thread gets it.
No matter how much you troll this thread, this is not a thread about Blatt. No matter how hell bent you are on making it so.
Others repented for TT, others for JR, Dion, Shump, Love. The list goes on.
They get it. You don’t.

This thread is different because in contrast to most others devoted to never ending circular one upmanship, this one does the opposite. It provides people with the opportunity to demonstrate their mature capacity for self-reflection, soul searching and humility. Novel, I know. Think of it as a test, a Survivor’s reward challenge, if you wish. It has been said that repentance cannot be demanded nor requested.
And no, tongue in cheek is not a reference to your sexual orientation, although it sounds like it might present a viable financial opportunity.

Now, that might not appeal to you. Thant’s fine. What the fuck are you doing on this thread then? There are dozens of other threads on this forum for you to lurk in. We’ll miss you, but no one is going to judge you for it.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m envious of you. In my heart of hearts I know that I could never be as real a fan as you are. Your sacrifice of the past few years in nothing short of awe inspiring. It will not surprise me the least to learn that you have been granted the keys to the city or at the very least appointed the Guardian of the Order of the Real Fans.

I hope that you understand this thread now (Vegas reports chance is zero). And maybe you have nothing to repent for. In the words of a wise rookie first time NBA Finals coach, who shall remain anonymous - Good For You!

If on the other hand, you still don’t get it, I would, if I were you, seriously consider the possibility of seeking professional help. And get some sun my friend. Vitamin D deficiency is a bitch. You might also want to consider the Aramaic proverb I offered you earlier.

If this is the case, I promise you that despite my fondness of your mischaracterisation and misrepresentation of the arguments of others, I shall not argue with you. No, esteemed colleague. I shall offer you only one more final response:

You win. Happy? Good for you!
And I shall grant you the first ever and only habitation in my ignore list. Please reciprocate

Click to expand...