Matthew Dellavedova

Travis T Of Justice said:

Good post. But I think you mean "guys without wholes in their game don't EXIST. Guy's with less holes in their games start."

Delly get's shat on by the haters for having no handle and being a poor shooter. Both of which are great for a second year backup point guard that his wearing himself extremely thin by hustling more than anyone else in the league (4th AST:TO ratio, 14th 3PT%). He came back way too early from that knee injury and hist 2P% suffered as a result early in the season. But I think it will be up next year. I don't think many people who REALLY watch his game closely claim he is lacking those skills. Yet the casual people who show up to scapegoat like to say that.

I think the only thing he severely lacks is the ability to create his own shot all the way to the hoop. He can get that mid-range floater, but trying to take a man 1 on 1 he lacks hops and height.

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you can't REALLY watch the game if you think Delly has great handles. He's a solid defender and a solid wide open shooter. However, not being able to consistently dribble well enough to create for others is a hole that is significant for a point guard, starter or backup. The Cavs are looking to upgrade the backup guard. It's not a negative to call Delly a 3rd pg.

Until something changes, Lebron is the PG of this team and Kyrie is the backup. We are a very non traditional team in that way and do not necessarily need a typical backup PG behind Kyrie. What we need is a three point shooter who can play some defense to hide Kyrie to let him conserve energy because he becomes the focal point on offense without Lebron on the floor.

Delly was decent in that role as the year went on. Those saying he can be a traditional backup PG are ignoring the vast body of evidence pointing otherwise. His A/T ratio came because 1) he was not the primary ball handler and 2) we destroyed the league with the Delly/TT/Moz lob because the defense was focused on Kyrie/Lebron/Love/JR. Notice how many times Delly embarrassed himself in the finals throwing a lob to nobody? That's what happens when he is a traditional PG and a defense pays attention to him.

Delly is an end of the bench guy. He happens to be a decent fit on this team, but I easily bid him farewell if he gets any kind of offer significantly over the minimum. He is easily replaceable.

NasstyNate said:

Until something changes, Lebron is the PG of this team and Kyrie is the backup. We are a very non traditional team in that way and do not necessarily need a typical backup PG behind Kyrie. What we need is a three point shooter who can play some defense to hide Kyrie to let him conserve energy because he becomes the focal point on offense without Lebron on the floor.

Delly was decent in that role as the year went on. Those saying he can be a traditional backup PG are ignoring the vast body of evidence pointing otherwise. His A/T ratio came because 1) he was not the primary ball handler and 2) we destroyed the league with the Delly/TT/Moz lob because the defense was focused on Kyrie/Lebron/Love/JR. Notice how many times Delly embarrassed himself in the finals throwing a lob to nobody? That's what happens when he is a traditional PG and a defense pays attention to him.

Delly is an end of the bench guy. He happens to be a decent fit on this team, but I easily bid him farewell if he gets any kind of offer significantly over the minimum. He is easily replaceable.

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Mike miller will be 2.8 mill. I don't believe Delly would take anything under 3 mill per year.

I thought a secondary ball handler normally has a much lower Ast:TO ratio? The only true secondary ball handler even roughly in Delly's ball park Iguodala (AI about 30% lower ratio). I don't know if you could argue Steve Blake too???

Perhaps when people are talking handles, you are talking AND1 Hot sauce handles...Uncle Drew handles. Yeah, Delly hasn't got them. But he looks after the ball very well (particularly for a second year player (part of that intelligence, part of that fundamentals ) ).

I still think a combo guard would be great, and we did get a PG in the draft we can hope to develop, too. Competition is nice

Travis T Of Justice said:

I thought a secondary ball handler normally has a much lower Ast:TO ratio? The only true secondary ball handler even roughly in Delly's ball park Iguodala (AI about 30% lower ratio). I don't know if you could argue Steve Blake too???

Perhaps when people are talking handles, you are talking AND1 Hot sauce handles...Uncle Drew handles. Yeah, Delly hasn't got them. But he looks after the ball very well (particularly for a second year player (part of that intelligence, part of that fundamentals ) ).

I still think a combo guard would be great, and we did get a PG in the draft we can hope to develop, too. Competition is nice

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Delly has below average handles for a pg on every level.

ptw1 said:

Delly has below average handles for a pg on every level.

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Below average in the NBA still ain't bad!

ptw1 said:

you can't REALLY watch the game if you think Delly has great handles. He's a solid defender and a solid wide open shooter. However, not being able to consistently dribble well enough to create for others is a hole that is significant for a point guard, starter or backup.

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Just because a great defensive player can make it difficult for a guy playing the point doesn't mean the guy playing the point is incompetent. Mark Price, a consistent All-Star at the position -- usually ended up looking like a buffoon every time MJ decided to put pressure on him.

Livingston is a very good defensive PG, and he gives many starting PG's problems because of his length. Of course he's going to make it hard for a lot of backups. The way you break that is by having other players set more screens, have an alternative ball-handler to break the press, etc.. We didn't have that. Of course, most of the time, you're not facing a defensive PG like Livingston.

Now sure, we can probably find a backup PG who is going to be a better ball-handler than Delly, and more adept at breaking the press. You can get an "upgrade" in those categories if that's what you want. But he may well be shite defensively, and less able to hit the 3.

What is being overlooked is we basically had zero offensive system in the Finals. Shump and JR weren't hitting their shots, so a very good defensive team like GSW was able to stifle our offensive. Our guys were running on fumes, weren't as active as they had been when playing more reasonable minutes, and simply presented less opportunities to get into the flow.

And because we didn't have a backup PG, GSW was able to game-plan to stop our backup PG. I'd contend that a top defensive team playing against any backup PG is going to make that guy look bad, particularly when that backup has no backup of his own to change things up.

NasstyNate said:

Delly was decent in that role as the year went on. Those saying he can be a traditional backup PG are ignoring the vast body of evidence pointing otherwise. His A/T ratio came because 1) he was not the primary ball handler and 2) we destroyed the league with the Delly/TT/Moz lob because the defense was focused on Kyrie/Lebron/Love/JR. Notice how many times Delly embarrassed himself in the finals throwing a lob to nobody? That's what happens when he is a traditional PG and a defense pays attention to him.

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So what you should figure out by now is that a "traditional point guard" isn't necessary on this team. AAU youth "coaches" tell one guy to dribble the air out of the ball, big guys to just set picks and rebound, and they literally hold one practice for every 4-5 games played. This is why we have the same problems with draft picks year after year, and they aren't ready to help an NBA team for a few years.

"Traditional point guards" exist because the youth coaching failed to produce well rounded athletes.

If the Cavaliers don't resemble that shit show of an AAU cookie cutter offense, fantastic.

Randolphkeys said:

So what you should figure out by now is that a "traditional point guard" isn't necessary on this team. AAU youth "coaches" tell one guy to dribble the air out of the ball, bigenjoy to just set picks and rebound, and they literally hold one practice for every 4-5 games played.

"Traditional point guards" exist because the youth coaching failed to produce well rounded athletes.

If the Cavaliers don't resemble that shit show of an AAU cookie cutter offense, fantastic.

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The other thing is that I think you want backups that complement their starters, not just mirror their style but at a worse level.

In some respects, Delly is the anti-Kyrie. Both can shoot from the outside, but other than that, their games are almost opposites. KI is a great ballhandler who can break down an offense, but his defense is mediocre, he can't guard larger players, and he tends to pound the ball rather than actually run an offensive. Delly is not a great ballhandler, but he can guard multiple position and keep the ball moving on offense. Having that variation enables the coach to do a lot more mixing/matching/situational playing. Delly's ability to play the 2 really helps that as well.

So by extension, what we'd need and could reasonably afford as a 3rd PG is someone who complements Delly if Kyrie gets injured. Good ballhandling skills and the ability to create his own shot, but not a defensive stud/floor general type. The kind of guy you'd stick in a game if GSW brings someone like Livingston in.

The point isn't to replace Delly. It's to complement him with a change of pace backup in the event Kyrie goes down. Getting rid of Delly only to replace him with an offense-first PG leaves the Cavs with much less flexibility, and the potential to be exploited by teams with dominant offensive PG's.

Randolphkeys said:

So what you should figure out by now is that a "traditional point guard" isn't necessary on this team. AAU youth "coaches" tell one guy to dribble the air out of the ball, big guys to just set picks and rebound, and they literally hold one practice for every 4-5 games played. This is why we have the same problems with draft picks year after year, and they aren't ready to help an NBA team for a few years.

"Traditional point guards" exist because the youth coaching failed to produce well rounded athletes.

If the Cavaliers don't resemble that shit show of an AAU cookie cutter offense, fantastic.

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I'm not seeing the point of this post. I literally said that we do not need a typical point guard in the second sentence.

NasstyNate said:

I'm not seeing the point of this post. I literally said that we do not need a typical point guard in the second sentence.

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I'm saying that if you want to watch a 5'11 guy claim to be 6'3 "in shoes" and dribble the air out of the ball, follow Dion Waiters to the D-League. The AAU sysyem has no shortage of underdeveloped guards who can do what you described, but have no idea how to do the things Delly provides. You will love the D league.

ptw1 said:

you can't REALLY watch the game if you think Delly has great handles. He's a solid defender and a solid wide open shooter. However, not being able to consistently dribble well enough to create for others is a hole that is significant for a point guard, starter or backup. The Cavs are looking to upgrade the backup guard. It's not a negative to call Delly a 3rd pg.

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Your confusing the issue. Delly is not good at penetrating off the dribble 1:1 unless there is traffic he can work off and he is NOT flashy. He's not fast, but he is crafty. However he does have 'handles' - look at the TO ratio. Yet again consider him in the totality of the team unit on the floor as 1:1 is show boat highlight reel stuff and not basketball that will let a second unit contribute to a high level.

NasstyNate said:

Until something changes, Lebron is the PG of this team and Kyrie is the backup. We are a very non traditional team in that way and do not necessarily need a typical backup PG behind Kyrie. What we need is a three point shooter who can play some defense to hide Kyrie to let him conserve energy because he becomes the focal point on offense without Lebron on the floor.

Delly was decent in that role as the year went on. Those saying he can be a traditional backup PG are ignoring the vast body of evidence pointing otherwise. His A/T ratio came because 1) he was not the primary ball handler and 2) we destroyed the league with the Delly/TT/Moz lob because the defense was focused on Kyrie/Lebron/Love/JR. Notice how many times Delly embarrassed himself in the finals throwing a lob to nobody? That's what happens when he is a traditional PG and a defense pays attention to him.

Delly is an end of the bench guy. He happens to be a decent fit on this team, but I easily bid him farewell if he gets any kind of offer significantly over the minimum. He is easily replaceable.

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I guess I'm kind of confused as to what you think we need as a backup PG. You say we don't need a "traditional" PG, but rather one who can play defense and hit threes. And you acknowledge that Delly was "decent" at that.

You then go on to point out all the ways that Delly is not a traditional PG, but based on your first point, I can't see why that would matter to you anyway. You then point to the Finals, and essentially criticize Delly for not being able to play the role of a traditional PG in terms of creating offense. Although I disagree about his performance in the Finals -- I think the reason Delly's lobs missed were because our lack of reliable outside shooting by JR/Shump/LBJ, etc.. clogged the middle. Delly failed running our offense in the Finals because there weren't the pieces to run an offense, and he was forced to try to make something out of nothing. But anyway....

You then go on to say that Delly is an end of the bench guy. But if you're looking to b/u KI with a 3 and D guy....why isn't that Delly?

What's confusing is that you're saying we need a 3 and D guy rather than a traditional point guard, but you seem to be criticizing Delly's performance in the Finals because he wasn't able to do the things a "traditional PG" can do.

So who is a non-traditional, 3 and D backup PG you think would have done better for us in the Finals?

Cavs extended a qualifying offer to Delly just now (sorry if this was already posted) according to my BR team stream

NeilR said:

Your confusing the issue. Delly is not good at penetrating off the dribble 1:1 unless there is traffic he can work off and he is NOT flashy. He's not fast, but he is crafty. However he does have 'handles' - look at the TO ratio. Yet again consider him in the totality of the team unit on the floor as 1:1 is show boat highlight reel stuff and not basketball that will let a second unit contribute to a high level.

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he's not crafty. Andre Miller is crafty. Delly's asst to TO rate has nothing to do with handles.