natedagg
Gold Star Member
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How about some facts?
The researchers estimate that up to 3.9 million absentee ballots were requested but not received by voters in the 2008 presidential election. Another 2.9 million ballots sent to voters requesting them were not returned for counting. And 800,000 returned absentee ballots were rejected for one reason or another. In all, 21 percent of requested absentee ballots were never counted in 2008—35.5 million requests for absentee ballots led to 27.9 million mail-in ballots being counted.
7.6 million people tried to absentee vote but weren't able to for one reason or another. I find that pretty alarming.
There is another report that hundreds of thousands of absentee ballots arrived late in the mail. Why would you trust the US Post Office over the internet?
This is exactly the type of post that adds to the conversation and brings up new facts and an interesting angle. This is alarming for sure, for those that requested and did not receive ballots, or scary thought - those that sent them in and they simply were not counted and marked as "never returned".
Now, one could posit that the more-informed voters are being selected against here and all of this is occurring to suppress the votes for a certain party... But do you see how crazy that is?!? This is about a fair process to be allowed to cast your vote.
I have never had problems voting absentee, so this is the best argument that I have seen against my position so far. So once again, here's where I am at: having to mail in a vote does not make it prohibitively oppressive or against a right that we have as citizens.
Too long of lines where you actually have to leave because of obligations of work/family? Not OK.
Trying to vote absentee and not getting to b/c not receiving your ballot? Not OK.
Getting your absentee ballot and not sending it back? OK. Your fault.
Sending it back with errors? OK, your fault.
Sending it back and having someone throw it in the trash and never count it? Not OK.
Online system? It's a good idea, and I think the tide is headed in that direction. However, you don't get to stand on some moral high ground and talk about all of those poor, hard working people who don't get to vote now, and act like I am opposed to it. That's just a veil, and that's what's annoying.
@gourimoko seems to think it's doable. That's just not enough for me, particularly when he has worked for campaigns that it would benefit - despite his debate skills, it's just not enough for me. It's like this guy comes in and tells you that it'd be secure and how the hackers can break the current system, so good, let's just check the box for online voting. Ok, presto! Now we have it because banks have ATMs! So are we to believe the current system is only in place because some powerful interests want it that way, and they are rigging the elections that they just lost? Is that the story where we get to root for the poor American working 90 hours a week? Do you think that there is more to it? I sure do. It's not a snap decision to make this work effectively, AT ALL.
We will find out in the next couple of decades, because that is where the tide is going.
So when you click that FB add to register, or you click it to "learn more about the candidates", and that leads you to that green box that says "click here to vote", just know that $ is changing hands, and you just got someone paid, because they already analyzed who you were going to vote for if they got you to register and vote. I have a client, very wealthy, pretty red-neck republican, conservative guy. He has a ton of money and an online ad agency. He once said "Nate, you could shit on a plate and I could sell it online." He'll be in there looking for 3 impulsive clicks too, from millions of people.
When the first scandal breaks where someone created emails for thousands of people and got them to vote via these emails, then perhaps you will reconsider those of us who don't want to hear these concepts of democracy and be told how this is class warfare.
When the democracy index shows that clearly we are more democratic because instantaneously more people voted, don't raise an eyebrow. At least, not until your email is hacked and someone posts your voting record.
Imagine all of the websites that will look official and get people to "vote" on them, only to capture SS#s and DOBs for fraudulent activities. Just smoke a mental bowl on the whole array of crazy that will happen. It's fascinating.
We now have a better quality of democracy because you can click 3 times to vote. Does that even make sense? The best argument of all for an online system is if you can verify that you voted and your vote has counted. That's important and a great idea.
@Maximus and it's all fun and games, votes flowing like bubbly, until... you guessed it... EMP BLAST.
It's an imperfect system as is, and with new technology comes a new set of headaches, and I have concern over a new system. When you are talking about headaches regarding who is leading your country, this isn't some trivial thing. Because some grand-master debater tells you so, and because it passes the sniff test as an idea, it doesn't mean it'll fly.
That's really all I have to say. I am not going to dissect line-by-line any posts or respond to any dissections. It's folly and apparently I am getting crushed in here.