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Are 3 pointers ruining the league?

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What can be done about the 3 pointers?

  • Keep it the same, stop whining

    Votes: 8 42.1%
  • Move the 3 point line back again (perhaps from half court?)

    Votes: 5 26.3%
  • Change the scoring... 2s become 3s and 3s become 4s. (effectively making 3s less valuable)

    Votes: 2 10.5%
  • Remove any 3 pointers

    Votes: 1 5.3%
  • Just remove the side 3

    Votes: 2 10.5%
  • 1 point reduction if you miss a 3 pointer more than 10 feet behind the 3 point line

    Votes: 1 5.3%

  • Total voters
    19
It's also getting its shittiest ratings in a long, long time.

This years Finals ratings are the most alarming yet.

Two years ago, yo ucould chalk it up to the bubble, even though it involved the Lakers.

Last year, it rebounded slightly, but didn't approach the pre-bubble numbers and you could chalk it up to teams that aren'tterrible popular.

This year? Game 1 was low. Again, way, way down compared to historic numbers. And these are two prime time teams with big fanbases in big media markets.

So clearly people are finding something wrong with the product.
The casual fan just cares that the Lakers or Knicks are doing well. They are tired of GS. Don't think it has everything to do with the game.

Do agree we need to see more from the zebras tho. Key to good basketball
 
I don’t think it’s the death of the post game (one….because there are very few big men in the game today with an actual low post game) or the mid range game. I believe it is a key element of the game today…WHEN it comes in the flow of the game. There is nothing beautiful about watching a team come down on a 3 on 1 fast break and instead of moving the ball for a quick layup fire up a three ball. What this whole conversation is about is “preference”. Some on here want to see ball movement and basketball moves towards the basket and others like the beauty of watching three balls rain down. Like I said the three ball hasn’t ruined the game…it’s the numbers game and the mindset behind the three ball.
The beauty is in simple computation. 3 > 2 .

But fair point about the aesthetics. I personally don't want to see the game slowed down so we can watch Kendrick Perkins spend 10 seconds establishing post position and then flinging the ball into the third row. Just like I dont want to see Travis outlaw pull up for another shitty 18 footer.

Pace and space broke the game open and is what leads to the modern game being so beautiful
 
The beauty is in simple computation. 3 > 2 .

But fair point about the aesthetics. I personally don't want to see the game slowed down so we can watch Kendrick Perkins spend 10 seconds establishing post position and then flinging the ball into the third row. Just like I dont want to see Travis outlaw pull up for another shitty 18 footer.

Pace and space broke the game open and is what leads to the modern game being so beautiful

How about this?

Make both of your FTs and get awarded a 3rd point. Finish an "and one" at the line and get awarded a point.

Seems kind of goofy, but maybe it'll spark more play around the rim and/or less defense.
 
How about this?

Make both of your FTs and get awarded a 3rd point. Finish an "and one" at the line and get awarded a point.

Seems kind of goofy, but maybe it'll spark more play around the rim and/or less defense.
Less defense seems like a bad outcome. Tho g league messed around with a 1 shot 2 pt free-throw. Could be something there
 
Less defense seems like a bad outcome. Tho g league messed around with a 1 shot 2 pt free-throw. Could be something there

I think less defense has been happening for awhile with the increase in scoring over the years, something I think the L actually likes.
 
I think less defense has been happening for awhile with the increase in scoring over the years, something I think the L actually likes.
I think thats more the effect of increased pace than anything. There are more possessions in the average game than 10 years ago, ergo more shots and points.

ORTG has trended up, which you can attribute to more intelligent offensive schemes dumping useless shots (midrange, post) for things that matter (rim attempts and 3s). I would argue that if anything, defense is as complex and interesting as it has ever been in NBA history. We just havent adjusted our expectations for the high variance in the game now or the higher pace.
 
The beauty is in simple computation. 3 > 2 .

But fair point about the aesthetics. I personally don't want to see the game slowed down so we can watch Kendrick Perkins spend 10 seconds establishing post position and then flinging the ball into the third row. Just like I dont want to see Travis outlaw pull up for another shitty 18 footer.

Pace and space broke the game open and is what leads to the modern game being so beautiful
It’s clear you never saw the Magic show, or the Alex English led Nuggets, or the Iceman’s Spurs team, or even the Magic team led by Shaq and Penny! They ran and opened up the court WITHOUT launching 41 threes!
 
I think thats more the effect of increased pace than anything. There are more possessions in the average game than 10 years ago, ergo more shots and points.

ORTG has trended up, which you can attribute to more intelligent offensive schemes dumping useless shots (midrange, post) for things that matter (rim attempts and 3s). I would argue that if anything, defense is as complex and interesting as it has ever been in NBA history. We just havent adjusted our expectations for the high variance in the game now or the higher pace.
Sorry the league doesn’t allow players to play strong defense anymore. I have never seen so many ticky tack and block fouls called in my life of watching the NBA.
 
It’s clear you never saw the Magic show, or the Alex English led Nuggets, or the Iceman’s Spurs team, or even the Magic team led by Shaq and Penny! They ran and opened up the court WITHOUT launching 41 threes!
So did the 60s Celtics but those teams were brickfests. They didnt launch 3s back in the day because people still played the game like they had before then, with an emphasis on postups and the occasional perimeter creation as the primary generation of offense. With your team has offensive stars on the level of Magic, English, Larry, or Zeke, you can make that junky offensive system look amazing. The worst offensive teams in 2022 is a more nuanced offense than all but the best teams of that era and a major component of that is having a better understanding of where valuable offense can be generated.

Sorry the league doesn’t allow players to play strong defense anymore. I have never seen so many ticky tack and block fouls called in my life of watching the NBA.
Players shoving each other and grappling is not what I would call strong defense. I refer to my earlier point. Defenses today are far more nuanced than 10 years ago let alone the older days. We have so much pre-switching, multi-switching, and positional counterplay going on now that people didn't even imagine back in the day. Anyone remember Mike Brown leaving poor Delonte West 1v1 vs Hedo Turkeyglue for an entire series?
 
So did the 60s Celtics but those teams were brickfests. They didnt launch 3s back in the day because people still played the game like they had before then, with an emphasis on postups and the occasional perimeter creation as the primary generation of offense. With your team has offensive stars on the level of Magic, English, Larry, or Zeke, you can make that junky offensive system look amazing. The worst offensive teams in 2022 is a more nuanced offense than all but the best teams of that era and a major component of that is having a better understanding of where valuable offense can be generated.


Players shoving each other and grappling is not what I would call strong defense. I refer to my earlier point. Defenses today are far more nuanced than 10 years ago let alone the older days. We have so much pre-switching, multi-switching, and positional counterplay going on now that people didn't even imagine back in the day. Anyone remember Mike Brown leaving poor Delonte West 1v1 vs Hedo Turkeyglue for an entire series?
I’m not talking about “shoving and grappling” but what I am talking about is moving your feet, staying in front of your man, knowing how to cut off a player’s strong hand and not getting beat back door 5-6 times a game because you don’t know how to position yourself so you can see your man AND the ball. Players do pre switching now because the majority of NBA players are piss poor on the ball defenders! I refer back to our 2016 title game….Steph Curry did all he could NOT to be switched onto Cryie because he knew his on the ball defense was piss poor. You have very few defenders in the game today that welcome switches onto strong offensive players!
 
I’m not talking about “shoving and grappling” but what I am talking about is moving your feet, staying in front of your man, knowing how to cut off a player’s strong hand and not getting beat back door 5-6 times a game because you don’t know how to position yourself so you can see your man AND the ball. Players do pre switching now because the majority of NBA players are piss poor on the ball defenders! I refer back to our 2016 title game….Steph Curry did all he could NOT to be switched onto Cryie because he knew his on the ball defense was piss poor. You have very few defenders in the game today that welcome switches onto strong offensive players!
Pre-switching is a response to offenses aggressively match up hunting. There are good and terrible man defenders today, just like there were in the 80s and before. Chuck wasn't stopping anyone. Neither was Magic. They were still good offensive players so you had to keep them out on the floor. If anything, I think we have come to realize that 1v1 man defense is not that big a deal in a lot of situations as you play defense as a team, not an individual. With smart scheming and understanding of player tendencies and positioning on the floor, it becomes possible to man a strong defense even with players who are "weak defenders" like K Love or Steph on the floor. Now, it is still important to have a good PoA defender in your scheme (Smart in Boston, GP2/Draymond in GS, Jrue in Mil etc), but you can excel without your whole lineup being defensive stalwarts due to the superior scheming in the modern game.
 
The beauty is in simple computation. 3 > 2 .

But fair point about the aesthetics. I personally don't want to see the game slowed down so we can watch Kendrick Perkins spend 10 seconds establishing post position and then flinging the ball into the third row. Just like I dont want to see Travis outlaw pull up for another shitty 18 footer.

Pace and space broke the game open and is what leads to the modern game being so beautiful

I would have agreed with you a while ago, there was a point where pace and space was producing really beautiful basketball. But things just seem to be getting extreme with the hunting for 3s. It feels like big swathes of the court are not part of the offensive game any more and people are just very predictably and repetitively going out of their way to pass out to the three point line constantly. I think moving the line back and eliminating the corner three would help
 
I would have agreed with you a while ago, there was a point where pace and space was producing really beautiful basketball. But things just seem to be getting extreme with the hunting for 3s. It feels like big swathes of the court are not part of the offensive game any more and people are just very predictably and repetitively going out of their way to pass out to the three point line constantly. I think moving the line back and eliminating the corner three would help
Yeah, thats an effect of the math. I am not sure thats a bad thing tho. Ugly midrange isos and postups have been phased out of the game in favor of more offball actions and weak side back screens all of which I think is good. The space is being used far more effectively by the competent teams. Our offense is about as ugly as it gets in the modern NBA, and even that is better than the crap we watched in the late 00s
 
Pre-switching is a response to offenses aggressively match up hunting. There are good and terrible man defenders today, just like there were in the 80s and before. Chuck wasn't stopping anyone. Neither was Magic. They were still good offensive players so you had to keep them out on the floor. If anything, I think we have come to realize that 1v1 man defense is not that big a deal in a lot of situations as you play defense as a team, not an individual. With smart scheming and understanding of player tendencies and positioning on the floor, it becomes possible to man a strong defense even with players who are "weak defenders" like K Love or Steph on the floor. Now, it is still important to have a good PoA defender in your scheme (Smart in Boston, GP2/Draymond in GS, Jrue in Mil etc), but you can excel without your whole lineup being defensive stalwarts due to the superior scheming in the modern game.
Team defense has always be a part of the game. That’s what made the Malone/Stockton Jazz teams so good on defense, same with the Bulls, and the Duncan led Spurs! I would never say Chuck was a defensive stopper. But neither is Durant. Hell Harden can’t guard a fire hydrant.
 
Team defense has always be a part of the game. That’s what made the Malone/Stockton Jazz teams so good on defense, same with the Bulls, and the Duncan led Spurs! I would never say Chuck was a defensive stopper. But neither is Durant. Hell Harden can’t guard a fire hydrant.
Durant isn't a stopper but he is a legitimate rim protector at the 3 and generates a lot of deflections with those long arms. We saw that with the Hampton Fives lineup. Harden is a major outlier for how lazy he is on D, but he also has carried some of the highest offensive loads in NBA history. Got to give him some credit tho, he is an excellent post defender. Bigs cant back him down for free at all.
 

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