2023 Free Agency

I'd be surprised if we spent significantly above Anthony Walker-level at linebacker.

Linebackers just aren't important. I'd rather spend on defensive tackles who can keep linebackers clean and allow them to make plays than spend on linebackers who can't do shit because the DT gets walked back into their face every play.

You only need two, and JOK is one of them. I think Takitaki has a shot at being the starting Mike. He looked far more comfortable there than he ever did playing Sam.

If we can find defensive tackles who can keep our second level clean, I'd love to find talented linebackers who can take advantage of that--but let's start with the defensive tackles first.

Out of the Rafters at the Q said:

I'd be surprised if we spent significantly above Anthony Walker-level at linebacker.

Linebackers just aren't important. I'd rather spend on defensive tackles who can keep linebackers clean and allow them to make plays than spend on linebackers who can't do shit because the DT gets walked back into their face every play.

You only need two, and JOK is one of them. I think Takitaki has a shot at being the starting Mike. He looked far more comfortable there than he ever did playing Sam.

If we can find defensive tackles who can keep our second level clean, I'd love to find talented linebackers who can take advantage of that--but let's start with the defensive tackles first.

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Disagree here, there is really no such thing as an unimportant position.

LBs constantly being unable to fill and getting out of position, or closed off in the run game, you’re creating a huge mess and the potential for big play opportunities in getting to the next level.


DTs aren’t often getting pushed back into the LB, they’re getting stood up or not quick enough to achieve leverage, but the Browns woes were compounded by a lacking LB position that repeatedly found themselves getting swallowed up or fitting the wrong gap.


When you watch guys like Pratt and Long fill gaps and utilize their quickness to beat OL to the point of attack, you’re creating more opportunities for small yardage plays.

Los216 said:

Zach Allen would also fill the void in the white defensive lineman who is a fan favorite department. We've been severely lacking in this area since Economic Czar Carl Nassib and The Pierogi Prince of Parma Jamie Meder have been gone.

Chase Winovich had a spark when he first started but now.....

Chase was doomed from the start and it wasn't because he went to TTUN. It's because he cut his hair and when you're a white pass rusher with a personality that fans gravitate to you do not cut your hair Chase. He lost a lot of momentum with the haircut.

Give me a white pass rusher who we can hype up on defense like we did on the offense with Gary Barnidge. Nobody can fill Gary's shoes but that's because he needs those steel toe boots to finish concreating those driveways.

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Agreed. Give me the white pass rusher that the fans have been coveting…. And of course we need our sure handed, great deceptive route running, white inside receiver…

A Welker, an Edelman, a Renfrow…

Just add those 2 type of white guys on this team and fill out the roster as you wish and the Browns will be on their way…

PIP said:

Agreed. Give me the white pass rusher that the fans have been coveting…. And of course we need our sure handed, great deceptive route running, white inside receiver…

A Welker, an Edelman, a Renfrow…

Just add those 2 type of white guys on this team and fill out the roster as you wish and the Browns will be on their way…

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Are you saying we need a coach on the field? A real scrappy WR?

Los216 said:

Are you saying we need a coach on the field? A real scrappy WR?

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We don’t need track stars, bro !! We need football players…

In fact we need football players with high football IQ… Gritty, tough, and very cerebral who can relate to this banger…

AZ_ said:

Disagree here, there is really no such thing as an unimportant position.

LBs constantly being unable to fill and getting out of position, or closed off in the run game, you’re creating a huge mess and the potential for big play opportunities in getting to the next level.


DTs aren’t often getting pushed back into the LB, they’re getting stood up or not quick enough to achieve leverage, but the Browns woes were compounded by a lacking LB position that repeatedly found themselves getting swallowed up or fitting the wrong gap.


When you watch guys like Pratt and Long fill gaps and utilize their quickness to beat OL to the point of attack, you’re creating more opportunities for small yardage plays.

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Fair points. Maybe I should've used better wording than not important.

"Spending premium assets at linebacker isn't a wise move unless we already have premium talent in front of them" is a better explanation of my stance and it still doesn't cover everything. For example, I was fully on board with taking JOK over the mediocre DL prospects in 2021.

If our linebackers are terrible, that's bad--but I'd rather have mediocre linebackers and excellent defensive line play than vice versa.

In general, I'm just also not a David Long fan. If he costs more to bring in than Takitaki and/or Walker would cost to retain, I just don't see the ROI to make that worthwhile.

Smooth said:

iDL Javon Hargrave (2020)
iDL Fletcher Cox (2016-2020)
iDL Teair Tart (2021-2022)
iDL Hassan Ridgeway (2019-2020)
iDL Ndamukong Suh (2010-2013)

EDGE DeMarcus Walker (2022)
EDGE Vinny Curry (2016-2018; 2019-2020)
EDGE Genard Avery (2019-2020)
EDGE Brandon Graham (2016-2020)

DL Mario Edwards Jr (2022)

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I am sure the coaches have opinions on the defensive line already, but I could definitely see a role for Brandon Graham as a part-time third end. He will be 35 at the start of the season, and only played 42% of the snaps. However, he still produced. PFF has him at an elite 89.8 grade. He produced two forced fumbles, 8 sacks, and 19 total tackles. I could see him as a mentor third edge on passing downs.

Randolphkeys said:

I am sure the coaches have opinions on the defensive line already, but I could definitely see a role for Brandon Graham as a part-time third end. He will be 35 at the start of the season, and only played 42% of the snaps. However, he still produced. PFF has him at an elite 89.8 grade. He produced two forced fumbles, 8 sacks, and 19 total tackles. I could see him as a mentor third edge on passing downs.

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I've wanted Brandon Graham for years, and would welcome him with open arms for the next 1-2 years to provide a stopgap at DE and provide time for Alex Wright to grow.. Seems like him and Cox are resigned to leaving the Eagles, given their influx of young talent and Eagles are going to have to pay some people (Hargrave, Edwards, Bradberry, CGJ and Miles Sanders).. However, I wouldn't count out the Eagles finding a way to keep one or both given their long careers there and how good the Eagles are right now.. Plus with the amount of money Graham would count against the Eagles cap next year for not playing for them, think it may give them some extra incentive to bring him back..

Randolphkeys said:

I am sure the coaches have opinions on the defensive line already, but I could definitely see a role for Brandon Graham as a part-time third end. He will be 35 at the start of the season, and only played 42% of the snaps. However, he still produced. PFF has him at an elite 89.8 grade. He produced two forced fumbles, 8 sacks, and 19 total tackles. I could see him as a mentor third edge on passing downs.

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I’m fine with this.

According to casual fans, 35 is too old, but his PFF grades say otherwise.

Brandon Graham is what I wanted Chase Winovich and Takk McKinley to be.

Part time rusher.


Go smoke a QB on the 42% of snaps you play.

Los216 said:

Mecole Hardman
Trent Sherfield
Marquez Callaway


Speedy change of pace WR's that won't break the bank. Jakeem Grant being back healthy is also an addition.

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Pass.

These players are largely unproductive and inefficient, which isn’t what you need as a change of pace.

Nothing you can’t acquire through the draft in the form of young speed and vertical ability.

I know people don't want to hear it but Daron Payne will not be a Cleveland Brown next year.. Why?

1). There's a good chance Payne doesn't even hit the market.. They'll have the cap space to make it work and good chance they work out a contractor or tag him before he becomes a UFA..

2). He would be too expensive even if he hit the open market.. Spotrac has Payne's estimated contract being 5yrs, $97.4M ($19.4M AAV) -- there's no way Berry would pay that.. Not for what he's getting and for all the holes they need filled..

3). He may not even be worth it... PFF has Payne only grading above 70 for one season (2020) in his four year career.. The past two years he's graded out as the 41st and 72nd best iDL in the league.. Not to mention, his run defense grades have been subpar the last two years -- Taven Bryan has graded out better this year vs the run...

Similar to reasons #1 and #2, I don't see Hargrave hitting the open market or being a realistic target..

Berry's history seems to suggest he prefers a one-year veteran and a high pick to address iDL.. Whether or not he pivots based on need and past strategy, we'll see this offseason... If he doesn't, it would lend credence to a Fletcher Cox (or maybe Suh reunion?) and Day 2 draft pick to address the iDL spot then Payne or Hargrave..

I will say, if the Browns to spend big I think Dalvin Tomlinson is the guy they do it on.. Also watching what happens with Teair Tart in Tennessee..

Smooth said:

I know people don't want to hear it but Daron Payne will not be a Cleveland Brown next year.. Why?

1). There's a good chance Payne doesn't even hit the market.. They'll have the cap space to make it work and good chance they work out a contractor or tag him before he becomes a UFA..

2). He would be too expensive even if he hit the open market.. Spotrac has Payne's estimated contract being 5yrs, $97.4M ($19.4M AAV) -- there's no way Berry would pay that.. Not for what he's getting and for all the holes they need filled..

3). He may not even be worth it... PFF has Payne only grading above 70 for one season (2020) in his four year career.. The past two years he's graded out as the 41st and 72nd best iDL in the league.. Not to mention, his run defense grades have been subpar the last two years -- Taven Bryan has graded out better this year vs the run...

Similar to reasons #1 and #2, I don't see Hargrave hitting the open market or being a realistic target..

Berry's history seems to suggest he prefers a one-year veteran and a high pick to address iDL.. Whether or not he pivots based on need and past strategy, we'll see this offseason... If he doesn't, it would lend credence to a Fletcher Cox (or maybe Suh reunion?) and Day 2 draft pick to address the iDL spot then Payne or Hargrave..

I will say, if the Browns to spend big I think Dalvin Tomlinson is the guy they do it on.. Also watching what happens with Teair Tart in Tennessee..

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I agree with the gist of your post. However, one thing I'd point out--when I see things like the bolded, I view that as just another indictment of PFF.

Da'Ron Payne is an excellent, stout force in the middle of that defensive line. He's about as strong as they come and has zero issues maintaining two-gap discipline in run fits. He and Allen combined to make one of the most dominant DT duos of this recent NFL era.

As soon as Washington added Payne, that defensive line became their identity, and no PFF grade is going to change what Payne actually does on the field.

AZ_ said:

Pass.

These players are largely unproductive and inefficient, which isn’t what you need as a change of pace.

Nothing you can’t acquire through the draft in the form of young speed and vertical ability.

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What they need more than anything is a vertical threat -- someone to provide space for guys to work underneath/immediate routes and prevent teams from stacking the box against Chubb... That's what they hoped/needed Schwartz to be but we saw how that panned out..

Given his connection and likely affordability, Will Fuller is still at the top of my list.. Darius Slayton may have played his way into a bigger contract but would be a guy I'd be interested in too.. DJ Chark may have gone the opposite way with his play/injury but can't imagine he gets $10M per like last year..

Smooth said:

What they need more than anything is a vertical threat -- someone to provide space for guys to work underneath/immediate routes and prevent teams from stacking the box against Chubb... That's what they hoped/needed Schwartz to be but we saw how that panned out..

Given his connection and likely affordability, Will Fuller is still at the top of my list.. Darius Slayton may have played his way into a bigger contract but would be a guy I'd be interested in too.. DJ Chark may have gone the opposite way with his play/injury but can't imagine he gets $10M per like last year..

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Are DPJ and Schwartz not vertical threats? I'd even say Njoku is one. He's one of the better tight ends in the league at attacking vertically up the seam.

I know what you're saying--I also just don't think the majority of modern NFL coverages work that way. Schwartz can run fast in a straight line, and a DB would have to carry him down the field, but that just isn't going to significantly change the way the rest of the defense covers the other guys, and especially not within the short time frame most plays have to develop.

I wouldn't mind grabbing another receiver in the draft--but I look more for guys who can get open early and YAC it up. Obviously someone like Zay Flowers stands out early, but I have no problem taking a gamble on someone like Tank Dell in the later rounds.


I'm hoping that Schwartz is a data point that adjusted the way we evaluate prospects. It's clear that his timed speed doesn't translate to the football field, let alone all of the other issues in his game.

I also agree that Fuller would be a nice addition if he comes cheap--for the three games or so he's healthy.