Gimme Some Mo
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Even if that is the case, if we don't think we will be able to sign him, we will start shopping him in a year or 2.
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2010 Indians Game Discussion
- Thread starter Gimme Some Mo
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Even if that is the case, if we don't think we will be able to sign him, we will start shopping him in a year or 2.
Gunther
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My opinion is that the Indians FO will try to sign Choo to a long term contract this off-season. Will they be successful? I have no idea. Before Choo signed on with Scott Boras this year, I would have said yes, but now who knows for sure. Just a gut feeling on my part.
I think the FO will recognize that Choo is a fan favorite in addition to being their best all-around player, and they will try to go the extra mile to sign him. When Westbrook, Hafner, and CC were facing free agency, the Tribe was able to sign 2 of them. I think signing Choo will fit right in to their plans long term as well.
I also think that Choo wants to stay in Cleveland. Maybe that won't mean anything when the negotiations start, but then again maybe it will.
I look at it like this: to keep Choo will cost money. The FO knows this. But if they can get a deal where the bulk of the money is paid after the Hafner deal finally plays out, I don't think they'll have a big problem with it.
Hope I'm right!
Gunther
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Kudos to Michael Brantley for extending his hitting streak to 18 games tonight. According to Hammy, this is the longest rookie hitting streak in Cleveland since Larry Doby hit in 21 straight in 1948.
Since August 6th, Brantley is hitting .295 with a .333 OBP. He only has 7 XBH in those 34 games, which remains a concern, but hopefully he will mature into gap power over time - he is still young. He also has 8 stolen bases in this stretch (only being caught once), and has played a solid CF in this time defensively.
He needs to concentrate on getting out of the gate running next season, as he obviously had a problem with that this season. But I'm happy with what I am seeing out of him right now.
Since August 6th, Brantley is hitting .295 with a .333 OBP. He only has 7 XBH in those 34 games, which remains a concern, but hopefully he will mature into gap power over time - he is still young. He also has 8 stolen bases in this stretch (only being caught once), and has played a solid CF in this time defensively.
He needs to concentrate on getting out of the gate running next season, as he obviously had a problem with that this season. But I'm happy with what I am seeing out of him right now.
Falb7
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Have you followed sports in the last 10 years? It doesn't work that way with the Indians, it doesn't work that way with baseball, and it sure as hell doesn't work that way in professional sports.
Realize he's a fan favorite? You mean like Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome, CC Sabathia and Cliff Lee were? Extra mile? The team hasn't gone the extra mile to sign anyone in or outside of the organization since Mr. Jacobs sold this team in 2000. This included when they were a good, contending, respectable team.
Why would Choo want to stay in Cleveland around a consistent pile of shit talent pool when he could make a name for himself in New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago or LA, all the while making more money? Because he's loyal? There's no loyalty in professional sports - it needs to be a written law somewhere. It's a fact.
The Indians in 2010 are near or at the bottom in attendance, and the good for nothing cheap asshole family that runs this organization will not only cut payroll but cut it dramatically in the coming seasons - blaming it on the market and blaming it on YOU - the fan for not showing up. IF you want them to spend money you have to first put money in their pockets as they give the middle finger to your face with this product on the field every night from April to September!
If you want a model for how the Indians will be run and what their goals are in the coming years, read this article:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5484947
Gunther
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Geez, feel better now? Looks like that one has been bottled up for some time.
Yes, the last 35 years actually.
I assume you mean there is no loyalty in sports anymore? Because you know that each sport has its own revenue structure, don't you? If that's what you meant, I agree with you. But loyalty is not what I was referring to in my statement.
As I stated in my original post, the last time the Indians had three big name free agents in impending free agency in a period where they were near contending they were able to sign two of them, Westbrook and Hafner. They have stated that this is likely to be their model moving forward. They won't be able to sign everyone, but they will attempt to sign those who they feel are key pieces in their future as long as the price fits into their model. I feel they will sign Choo because of this. Maybe they won't be able to do this this year, but even so, they have 3 more years to worry about it. Choo can't go anywhere for 3 years.
And by the way, we contended in 2007.
I agree that there is no loyalty in sports anymore. But I have also heard Choo say that he wants to stay in Cleveland and I know the Indians want to keep Choo. The only thing separating them is the money, which I agree is probably going to be a huge issue at some point. I tend to believe Choo when he says he wants to stay in Cleveland more than I believed any other player in the last 20 years, but that is just my opinion. For all I know he can't wait to move on. But he has to wait 3 years regardless.
This all goes back to the same argument that finds its way into most of these baseball threads - it's all about the revenue structure of baseball. Either you believe that the Dolans are cheap, or you believe that the revenue structure of baseball is only consistantly fair to the major market teams. I don't happen to be a particular fan of the Dolans, but I recognize the model that they are working under, and I agree that it gives the team the best chance to compete with the big boys once or twice a decade. It has worked for other markets our size, and I believe it will work for us - or at least put us in a position to be succesful. Is this going to happen next year? No. Probably we won't really "contend" until the 2012-2014 seasons, and even then we're going to need some luck to get to the promised land. Frankly, I think 2013 is more likely, but that's so far ahead I don't see the point in discussing it.
As for the Pirates story, I am very familiar with it. Are the Indians doing the same things? Maybe so. I don't know for sure, and neither do you. But I know this much: If you really think any owner is going to come into Cleveland, buy the Indians from the Dolans for more than they paid Dick Jacobs for the team, then proceed to try and out-spend the Yankees year after year, then you're the one who's dreaming because it simply isn't going to happen. I choose not to whine about it, and to continue to root for the team.
Yes, the last 35 years actually.
I assume you mean there is no loyalty in sports anymore? Because you know that each sport has its own revenue structure, don't you? If that's what you meant, I agree with you. But loyalty is not what I was referring to in my statement.
As I stated in my original post, the last time the Indians had three big name free agents in impending free agency in a period where they were near contending they were able to sign two of them, Westbrook and Hafner. They have stated that this is likely to be their model moving forward. They won't be able to sign everyone, but they will attempt to sign those who they feel are key pieces in their future as long as the price fits into their model. I feel they will sign Choo because of this. Maybe they won't be able to do this this year, but even so, they have 3 more years to worry about it. Choo can't go anywhere for 3 years.
And by the way, we contended in 2007.
I agree that there is no loyalty in sports anymore. But I have also heard Choo say that he wants to stay in Cleveland and I know the Indians want to keep Choo. The only thing separating them is the money, which I agree is probably going to be a huge issue at some point. I tend to believe Choo when he says he wants to stay in Cleveland more than I believed any other player in the last 20 years, but that is just my opinion. For all I know he can't wait to move on. But he has to wait 3 years regardless.
This all goes back to the same argument that finds its way into most of these baseball threads - it's all about the revenue structure of baseball. Either you believe that the Dolans are cheap, or you believe that the revenue structure of baseball is only consistantly fair to the major market teams. I don't happen to be a particular fan of the Dolans, but I recognize the model that they are working under, and I agree that it gives the team the best chance to compete with the big boys once or twice a decade. It has worked for other markets our size, and I believe it will work for us - or at least put us in a position to be succesful. Is this going to happen next year? No. Probably we won't really "contend" until the 2012-2014 seasons, and even then we're going to need some luck to get to the promised land. Frankly, I think 2013 is more likely, but that's so far ahead I don't see the point in discussing it.
As for the Pirates story, I am very familiar with it. Are the Indians doing the same things? Maybe so. I don't know for sure, and neither do you. But I know this much: If you really think any owner is going to come into Cleveland, buy the Indians from the Dolans for more than they paid Dick Jacobs for the team, then proceed to try and out-spend the Yankees year after year, then you're the one who's dreaming because it simply isn't going to happen. I choose not to whine about it, and to continue to root for the team.
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2012 is the year, bud...
macbdog
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I have to question anyone who compares the Tribe to the Pirates to find out if they have paid attention to baseball, at all, in the past 20 years
The Indians, even after this last rebuild, are in no way in the situation that the Pirates were or are in. It is the other way around- the Pirates have twice tried to copy the Tribe's blueprint and failed. The tried in the mid-late 90s by signing all their young players to long-term deals to avoid arby and it backfired miserably. They have recently tried the complete dump-and-reload that the Tribe did twice in the last decade and so far it looks like a wash, too- not a Carlos Santana, Carlos Carrasco, Jason Knapp, Michael Brantley, or even a Matt LaPorta to point to. I think folks have the situations backwards.I can understand folks being upset at the current state of the bigleague product- I am too and I don't think this club has taken the right steps forward under Acta that I felt they should have. However, if the only reaction then is what amounts to a sports temper tantrum then folks probably need to: a. find a new hobby and b. find a different vent for their post-LBJ frustrations.
Falb7
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Congratulations.
There is no loyalty in sports where they have a good salary cap (NFL), a flawed salary cap (NBA), or no salary cap (MLB).
I, as most others, were stunned and thrilled when Cheapwad actually spent on a couple of his own players. This was mostly just as a PR move and to save the inevitable later criticism. However, both of these moves were utter and complete disasters. Jake had Tommy John surgery and Pruce has been nothing short of pathetic in comparison to his 2005, 2006 and 2007 seasons. If you never spend meaningful money as a general practice, and the only time you actually do stick your neck out spend money is a total failure? This will be seen as a lesson learned and the Dolans will never take such a "costly" risk again. They will say that there is no money to do it, and to just look at the other comparable market sizes.
Our leadoff hitter will never be the same again (Grady, Cabrera), the core of that lineup is either elsewhere (Blake, Martinez, Gutierrez, Peralta), washed up (Pruce), or not on anyone's 40 man roster anymore (Kenny Lofton, Ryan Garko!).
The "We were 1 win away from the World Series in 2007" arguments have to go away and die already. Please. This is a totally different team not even close to the talent level of that squad, nor do they have the potential to get to that point in the playoffs.
:rofl:
While I do have a pipe dream (Mr. Gilbert) that this actually is a potential scenario... I'm not getting my hopes up and absolutely nothing in my posts have suggested that I think the Cheapwads will sell the team. You're putting words in my mouth now. You see that and something else a lot of times with people who choose to weakly rebut their arguments. "Well I'm going to root for the team regardless and not whine about it." You sir, are Cheapwad and Cheapwad junior's favorite type of customer - and the type of fan that so many in Pittsburgh have become. They are delusional, they get over 30,000 on weekend games all the time on stupid promotions and concerts. They have accepted that the Pirates are also hopeless. I went to a game a few weeks ago and heard nothing but rousing and delirious applause at an Andrew McCutchen 7th inning HR when the team was down 7-0. They're so beaten down and hopeless that they've become enthusiastic again for no reason.
"Going to a game is something to do in a nice downtown park and maybe there's a chance that they'll turn it around and magically be good again! They're our team and I'll be darned if I won't be rooting for them! They were good at one point and in the right direction THEN, so they must be going in the right direction! Just stay positive and wait for the future!" The Indians and Pirates totally mirror eachother.
I have to question anyone who compares the Tribe to the Pirates to find out if they have paid attention to baseball, at all, in the past 20 years
I can understand folks being upset at the current state of the bigleague product- I am too and I don't think this club has taken the right steps forward under Acta that I felt they should have. However, if the only reaction then is what amounts to a sports temper tantrum then folks probably need to: a. find a new hobby and b. find a different vent for their post-LBJ frustrations.
It's not a temper tantrum by any means... it's just stating facts. As long as the Indians are near the bottom of the league in attendance, which they will be as we keep posting these 90+ loss seasons... they'll continue to swirl around the drain of pathetic mediocrity for years to come.
All this time, they will not spending on any outside talent (which is necessary to contend), having near the resources to keep their core players intact, or having the smart baseball people to make the right moves to get us back to contention - look at their returns on the Martinez, Sabathia, and Lee trades.
While PIP is right that the year 2012 is our best chance for contention (if that's what he meant), it simply won't happen when the only money that Cheapwad Dolan will be willing to spend on free agents is for Russell Branyan, Mark Grudzielanek, and Mike Redmond.
The Cavs have hope because they have a great Owner in Mr. Gilbert and a good organizational and league structure in place to succeed again. My comments are not James related, despite that being a convenient cop-out rebuttal.
The Indians, as sad as it makes me, can not say the same things.
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