2012 Draft

[bushwick_bill]

We are not getting the 7th pick, no point on discussing it.

 

[TwoPistols]

I'm am fully expecting to pick at 4 and 24. It's just fun to discuss how good we could possibly be in summer league...and next season.

 

[gregdawg]

Everyone is making this out like it is AV straight up for #7. That is not the case, we are adding 24 AND taking back salary for a player who won't even play for us(beans).

So this is the trade
AV, Q Miller and 18 million
for
Maybe Drummond? Lamb? Waiters?

Really?

What if Drummond is a bust? Great! We get to draft high again next year and the year after! Awesome that we get to waist Kyrie's rookie contract.

AV's age in each of the next 4 seasons.
12-13 30
13-14 31
14-15 32
15-16 33

If we hit on our picks, use our capspace correctly, have our guys (Kyrie and TT WILL) improve, I think we can be very competitive in 14-15, Andy will only be 32. Everyone is assuming this "dropoff" or "shell". Anderson never played better than last year, he is still IMPROVING. Giving Kyrie a very good P&R player is good for his developement. AV has played only 11,000 career minutes. He is a young 29 on the mileage scale.

Let's pretend after 08-09 season OKC had a 29 yr old AV. I would bet a ton if they had a 32 yr old AV right now, they would have beat the Heat in 4 or 5 games--they are getting beat on the boards and are losing the 50-50 balls right now and their P&R D with Perkins in sucks--AV changes that for them. But let's say they traded him and #24 for #7 that year. At #7, Curry went to GS--but would OKC have chosen Curry with Westbrook, Sefalosha and Harden? I doubt it, they would have went big--Jordan Hill would have been the likely pick. 2009 NBA Draft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia OR they could have kept AV and at #24 nabbed a Taj Gibson. They would have been much better not trading their 30 yr old center and pick in this scenario.

The perception of the "late first" vs the "lottery pick" is much larger than the reality. And in THIS draft, there is a pretty decent chance that #24 ends up a better player than #7. Throwing $18 Million and a very good starting center on top of that is just a bad use of our resources.

the cavs won't be legit playoff contenders by 2014. they might be able to get the 7th or 8th seed by then, but it will be 2015 or 2016 before the cavs are true playoff contenders. why keep Varejao just to compete for the 7th seed?

bottom line is that Anderson Varejao is too old to be part of this team's future core. realistically the cavs won't be a legit team until 2015 at the earliest. Andy will be too old by that point.

also - people wanting to hold onto Andy for a future playoff run are assuming that the Cavs will nail their draft picks perfectly and follow the OKC blueprint. if the cavs make some draft missteps or trade missteps, it's very possible that the cavs won't be serious playoff contenders until 2016 or later.

i also think people are over-estimating Varejao's durability. I don't think Varejao will be that effective at the age of 33 or 34. he already has no hops, and his quickness will be falling off by that point as well. i just don't see how a 33 or 34 year old Varejao will be a valuable piece in the future. i say dump Varejao now in order to get a younger player who can actually be part of that future core.

 

[DaNewCavs]

I'll be more disappointed if we don't get MKG. Getting MKG alone would make it a great draft. Getting MKG and Drummond, would possibly make it GOAT.

 

[KU_216]

My ideal draft order is:

1.Davis
2.Robinson
3.Beal
4.Kidd-Gilchrist


Then frankly, I don't care how the rest goes. If we walk out of this draft with just MKG, I'll be absolutely ecstatic.

 

[ice cream man]

I'm pretty confident (along with most mocks) Thomas Robinson will go #2. At this point. Impressed the Cavs yesterday. And we haven't heard much about him lately, probably because he's been at the top of Charlotte's draft board, and nothing has happened to indicate he is losing that spot. Ofcourse the Bobcats aren't going to say he's a lock, and they're exploring other possibilities. But they know who's going #1, and at this point, they know who they're picking. Make it look like they're taking Beal, maybe someone makes a big offer for #2...

 

[Sw33tL0u]

Those still living in FantasyLand about the #7 pick need to give it a rest....

Golden State has put it out there that they want a veteran WING player for the #7 pick....they likely aren't going to get one...and they aren't taking Anderson Varejao instead.

 

[JMcCurry08]

they want a veteran wing....give em luke walton

 

[KentuckyCav]

Those still living in FantasyLand about the #7 pick need to give it a rest....

Golden State has put it out there that they want a veteran WING player for the #7 pick....they likely aren't going to get one...and they aren't taking Anderson Varejao instead.

Alonzo Gee in a S&T?

Throw in the 24th pick.. .. Who says no first?

 

[gregdawg]

I'm in the camp of keeping him (Andy) UNLESS you see a player on the board you determine as a building block for the very long term.

I think its safe to assume that the #7 pick in a strong draft will be a long term building block. Whoever is available at #7 in this draft will have a higher ceiling than Varejao ever had. I give up Varejao for a #7 pick EVERY TIME.

 

[ice cream man]

Everyone is making this out like it is AV straight up for #7. That is not the case, we are adding 24 AND taking back salary for a player who won't even play for us(beans).

So this is the trade
AV, Q Miller and 18 million
for
Maybe Drummond? Lamb? Waiters?

Really?

What if Drummond is a bust? Great! We get to draft high again next year and the year after! Awesome that we get to waist Kyrie's rookie contract.

AV's age in each of the next 4 seasons.
12-13 30
13-14 31
14-15 32
15-16 33

If we hit on our picks, use our capspace correctly, have our guys (Kyrie and TT WILL) improve, I think we can be very competitive in 14-15, Andy will only be 32. Everyone is assuming this "dropoff" or "shell". Anderson never played better than last year, he is still IMPROVING. Giving Kyrie a very good P&R player is good for his developement. AV has played only 11,000 career minutes. He is a young 29 on the mileage scale.

Agreed that the much improved Kyrie needs to play with the improved Andy. If the Cavs are able to pick up any kind of offensive ability at the wings/frontcourt spots, and everyones healthy, I think people will be surprised at our success. The time to trade Andy will be at the deadline, when his value is much higher from once again producing at a high rate and playing winning basketball.
And if the Cavs continuously get offers that aren't near the value of Andy, the is no question they should keep him. 30 really isn't that old in any sport. Granted big men aren't likely to last as long as guards. He probably has 5 years of great basketball left, and I'm not trading him unless it significantly improves our team. (Lottery pick or impact player. If we can get #24 for Sessions.....)

 

[DaNewCavs]

As long as Kotoch says it's in play, there is no reason not to think that the possibility isn't out there and discuss it. That doesn't mean it's going to happen, but that it COULD.

 

[gregdawg]

Andy put up better STATS last year. His stats are better than the past because there was no talent on the team besides Kyrie Irving. With that cleared up, I didn't notice Andy's improvement in any category.

And you're missing the point by calling this merely a first round upgrade. This is allowing us to add another potential star to the young core at 7 instead of just a role player at 24. Andre Drummond could be at 7. He has franchise changing potential. Barnes could be there. He has All Star potential. No one can be sure what Lamb, Rivers, or Ross become, but they have the tools to be more than role players.

The NBA is a star driven league. If you get the chance to sacrifice an almost 30 year old veteran big for a shot at a 19-20 year old with star potential, you HAVE to do it.

I understand you plan on contending sooner rather than later. Unfortunately your plan doesn't matter. This is going to take a little while. At most your window of contention with a productive Andy is going to be one, playoff untested year long. That's not enough for me to hold on to him over a potential young stud.

couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Nom]

Alonzo Gee in a S&T?

Throw in the 24th pick.. .. Who says no first?

We do. Because the Warriors would have hung up after the words Alonzo Gee came out and we'd be left holding a phone saying 'No one is there'

 

[elcheato]

Everyone is making this out like it is AV straight up for #7. That is not the case, we are adding 24 AND taking back salary for a player who won't even play for us(beans).

And that's the only way you're going to get a top 10 pick for Varejao, because he's simply not worth it for any team picking in that range unless the Cavs throw in more and take back salary.