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2012 Draft

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I think people are vastly overrating:

1 - What Varejao provides to a rebuilding team. He is a huge asset for a contender, he means almost nothing to a rebuilding team

2 - How quickly this team will turn around. Durant was drafted in '07 and they are just now taking the next step. 5 years later. And Kyrie is no Durant. And we sure as hell don't have a Westbrook, Harden or Ibaka on this team.

So if we can get a top 10 pick for Andy - we do is yesterday.
 
I think people are vastly overrating:

1 - What Varejao provides to a rebuilding team. He is a huge asset for a contender, he means almost nothing to a rebuilding team

2 - How quickly this team will turn around. Durant was drafted in '07 and they are just now taking the next step. 5 years later. And Kyrie is no Durant. And we sure as hell don't have a Westbrook, Harden or Ibaka on this team.

So if we can get a top 10 pick for Andy - we do is yesterday.

Kyrie could be just as prolific a scorer as Durant. I'm not sure he'll win scoring titles, but he's already shown that he can put the ball in the hole from everywhere on the court. And TT certainly could be our Ibaka.
 
Varejao is worth more than a late 1st.

Something is only worth what someone is wiling to pay for it. No lottery team will sacrifice a viable asset for 30 year old injury prone big.
 
Varejao is worth more than a late 1st.

To us maybe, but I doubt the rest of the league feels the same. We're always going to value Andy higher than the rest of the league. But there's no way the rest of the league thinks his value is higher. I'm sorry, Andy is one of those players that you're never going to get equal value for. And to be fair, he's DEFINITELY not worth a lottery pick. That's absurd to really think he is without any bias involved.

He's about to be 30, entering the tail end of his career, with a history of injuries. His body is clearly wearing down, there's no way a defensive big man like that is worth a lottery pick. We can feel anyway we like, but the rest of the league definitely views him as a role player. Because he is a role player. A great one, but let's not pretend we're trading a premier all-star.

Think of things in reverse, would you give up a lottery pick for Tyson Chandler? Of course not. What makes Andy anymore special than Tyson?
 
I'd think that this Andy/#7 deal would have to be part of a three team deal, Andy's value is much higher for a contending team seeking that final piece. Something like Andy & #24 to the sixers, Iggy to the Warriors and #7 to us (please misc fillers).
 
Kyrie could be just as prolific a scorer as Durant. I'm not sure he'll win scoring titles, but he's already shown that he can put the ball in the hole from everywhere on the court. And TT certainly could be our Ibaka.

No. Durant possesses a still-growing skill set with a freakish touch and length. He will grow more and more into a variant of Dirk Nowitzki. Kyrie Irving, if this team is built the right way, should not have to become a prolific scorer like Durant. Hell, I don't even want him to score as much as Westbrook on a consistent basis. Plus he doesn't have elite scoring prowess like Durant does. It may be still early, but I just don't see it. He is efficient though.

Kyrie will look to score efficiently, but most importantly, I want him to lead and create for others. That is his role moving forward. Hopefully he can develop that more and more as the quality of his teammates improves via front office and coaching decisions.
 
stevekylerNBA: Also told that prior to making the deal with New Orleans... Washington and Portland talked extensively about swapping 3 for 6 and 10

It's like Washington just wants to rip my heart out.
 
How are we going to get more than a top-10 pick at this point for Andy? Andy is going to be 30 years old, and his value is only going to decrease the longer he plays. I don't know how you think his value is that high to begin with, let alone going to be higher, when his body clearly is wearing down and he can't stay healthy.

Yes, the 7th pick, and whomever we take is a risk, a chance. But we're never going to be good if we're not presented the opportunity to take these chances. How do you think we're ever going to get better?



To expect Andy to be in one piece in a year is being very optimistic. To think he'll actually be playing at this level when we're ready to contend again is being delusional. The Cavs have nothing to lose trading him. I understand they don't want to give him away, nor should they.

The Cavs would, and should jump at this deal if true. You're never going to get better value in a trade for Andy than this.

How the fuck is a broken wrist "clearly his body wearing down"???????!@!?!?@##!?!#? Insane. He does not have any chronic injuries. Greg Oden has chronic injuries.

Why are we so far from competing? This is not the NFL, right (at least that is what you guys keep telling everyone)? It takes just one or two great players to turn the tide in the NBA, right?? Isn't this the arguement I keep hearing?

We will have one of the top 3 or 4 PG's in the whole league next year in Kyrie, a legitimate superstar in the making. MKG or Beal, I think both will be perenial all-stars in the right situation--I will be thrilled with either. TT will be a double double big man with great shot blocking, he is young, he did not even have much of a training camp--and bigs always take longer to develope--I think we will see a HUGE jump this year from him. We will have a double double center with elite defense. Fill in the cracks around that and why will we suck!@?? Sign a stretch 4 like Ilyosova, get a wing that can shoot at 24, a backup big and PG with our 2nds. We have 2 or 3 firsts next year and TONS of cap space. If our goal is to compete in 5 years---we might now have Kyrie anymore by then.

Lets rehash:
At least 2 all-star caliber players
Potentially two double double bigs
Potential for our defense to be light years better than last year--you subtract Jamison and Parker add Andy and MKG and more minutes for TT--our D and rebounding will be so much better. The shots Jamison took will now go to more efficient shooters.

Give me:
Irving-Tyshawn Taylor (great athlete, that can shoot it a bit,, maybe even play some two guard minutes with Kyrie)
MKG --MKG can play the 2--having a long athletic 2 guard on D and running the floor would be great
Q Miller-Gee (maybe Gee starts until Miller is ready)
TT-Ilyosova
Andy-Ezeli

Or we nab Orlando Johnson or Will Barton instead of Taylor. OQunn in stead of Ezeli. I just like the spot we are in--we can get better in a hurry AND have the long term as well.
 
stevekylerNBA: Also told that prior to making the deal with New Orleans... Washington and Portland talked extensively about swapping 3 for 6 and 10

It's like Washington just wants to rip my heart out.

I worry if Charlotte goes with Beal, those talks to could resurface.
 
I think people are vastly overrating:

1 - What Varejao provides to a rebuilding team. He is a huge asset for a contender, he means almost nothing to a rebuilding team

2 - How quickly this team will turn around. Durant was drafted in '07 and they are just now taking the next step. 5 years later. And Kyrie is no Durant. And we sure as hell don't have a Westbrook, Harden or Ibaka on this team.

So if we can get a top 10 pick for Andy - we do is yesterday.

The reason it took Durant and OKC this long was because they had no veterans to help. Their defense was awful--when that improved their team improved. And Kyrie is not Durant, he actually has the ball in his hands more and controls more of the game. I would not sell Kyrie short just yet--we don't know what his ceiling is--what I do know is he was as good as any rookie PG I have ever seen.
 
How the fuck is a broken wrist "clearly his body wearing down"???????!@!?!?@##!?!#? Insane. He does not have any chronic injuries.
.

Maybe it's because of the way Andy plays? Recklessly? Maybe because the body also just can't take the abuse, and punishment it could take at age 25. Not to mention the body doesn't heal the same. Andy is always having some kind of nagging injuries, and it's never go to change. It's the nature of how he plays. Have you not been paying attention to his career?

Yeah, okay, Andy is going to continue to throw his body around like he has his entire career, and continue play in one piece. Sure....

Talk to Dwyane Wade, buddy. You play recklessly the way players like Andy and Wade do, they have much shorter shelf lives in this league. Father time catches up with all of them. But you try to be convinced it doesn't if it helps you.
 
The reason it took Durant and OKC this long was because they had no veterans to help. Their defense was awful--when that improved their team improved. And Kyrie is not Durant, he actually has the ball in his hands more and controls more of the game. I would not sell Kyrie short just yet--we don't know what his ceiling is--what I do know is he was as good as any rookie PG I have ever seen.

i'm sorry but this is just getting silly now....
 
Maybe it's because of the way Andy plays? Recklessly? Maybe because the body also just can't take the abuse, and punishment it could take at age 25. Not to mention the body doesn't heal the same. Andy is always having some kind of nagging injuries, and it's never go to change. It's the nature of how he plays. Have you not been paying attention to his career?

Yeah, okay, Andy is going to continue to throw his body around like he has his entire career, and continue play in one piece. Sure....

Talk to Dwyane Wade, buddy. You play recklessly the way players like Andy and Wade do, they have much shorter shelf lives in this league. Father time catches up with all of them. But you try to be convinced it doesn't if it helps you.

Did you see the play where he broke his wrist? Reckless? Standing there with the ball in his hand and someone karate chopping him?!?
 
To get to the NBA Finals at any point in ones career is great. Acting like this fifth year in Durants career was "such a long time" for OKC to "get it together" is ridiculous. OKC won 50 games in Durant's third season/Westbrooks 2nd.

That is the timeline we should hope for. Another crew of great rookies this year, one more lottery in 2013, and then a quantum jump, augmented by a key trade or FA signing, in Kyrie's third season.


The reason it took Durant and OKC this long was because they had no veterans to help. Their defense was awful--when that improved their team improved. And Kyrie is not Durant, he actually has the ball in his hands more and controls more of the game. I would not sell Kyrie short just yet--we don't know what his ceiling is--what I do know is he was as good as any rookie PG I have ever seen.
 
late first round or 2nd round picks who become quality players are hard to move. Their contracts start out lower so their 2nd contracts are typically reasonable. Its just hard to trade a guy youve gotten good value on. If Av was making 11-14 aa year it be a different story.


Av provides confidence and forces his teammates to have expectations as a team not just individuals. AV is willing to do al the dirty work that alot of NBA players dont want to do when they are young.

Before the cavs can win a championship./ they have to get to the payoffs. have a winning record.play as a team. Irving needs someone around he can count on..

If okc didnt think they needed veterans to get through the playoffs they wouldnt of bothered acquiring kenrick perkins or derek fisher
 

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