2012 Draft

[Soar]

Varejao, Paul Pierce, Durant. Which one should we draft?

 

[Tornicade]

and there ya have why people want av traded. its not for the chance to get john henson. its in hopes to pad the loss column for next year

 

[EdMonix11]

You're picking ONE YEAR, torn. ONE YEAR (where his effectiveness dropped slightly, the other years are more significant). Look at 07-08, look at 09-10. He is simply not as effective in the playoffs. And, if this team is capable of contending in the future, he will be well past his prime.

Not only is it one year, but its one year that happened THREE YEARS AGO. Andy's value will never be higher. I don't know about you, but I don't want to be sitting here 4-5 years from now arguing in a thread titled "What if the Cavs had traded Andy sooner?"

If you can get a top-7 pick for Varejao, you do it, no questions asked.

I could be wrong but your previous posts seems contradictory to me. You're acting like Andy is some sort of superstar that could give the Cavs some miraculous package of young players and picks that could set them up nicely for the future but also you're also trying to argue that he's not that valuable to the Cavs.

Everyone can argue all they want about Andy's worth but the fact remains Andy's not worth the #7 overall pick in any universe but more valuable to the Cavs than the mid-1st rounder they could get for him. That's the conundrum and people have failed to come to grips with that.

Which brings me to my next point; this shit has to stop about Andy for the #7 pick. Kotoch threw shit against the wall hoping something would stick. It's a total joke; it's not happening. Where's Ford, Amick, etc. picking up on this rumor? *crickets* If there was any ounce of truth to the GSW rumor, the Cavs would have to be taking on a HUGE amount of salary and give up future draft picks. Furthermore, since when do trades actually work out when they have been leaked to media weeks before the draft? Like i said previously, this deal was DOA right from the start.

 

[Gimme Some Mo]

If you really wouldn't trade AV and 24 for 7, you are crazy. Absolutely crazy. What more could you ask for?

I have grown to like and appreciate Varejao more and more every single season, but you have to take that chance. You have to put young players with star potential on this team and hope to hit.

 

[supergoat52]

and there ya have why people want av traded. its not for the chance to get john henson. its in hopes to pad the loss column for next year

Or, heaven forbid, both.

 

[AZ_]

This fucking week can't go by soon enough....

 

[czvo]

I could be wrong but your previous posts seems contradictory to me. You're acting like Andy is some sort of superstar that could give the Cavs some miraculous package of young players and picks that could set them up nicely for the future but also you're also trying to argue that he's not that valuable to the Cavs.

Everyone can argue all they want about Andy's worth but the fact remains Andy's not worth the #7 overall pick in any universe but more valuable to the Cavs than the mid-1st rounder they could get for him. That's the conundrum and people have failed to come to grips with that.

Which brings me to my next point; this shit has to stop about Andy for the #7 pick. Kotoch threw shit against the wall hoping something would stick. It's a total joke; it's not happening. Where's Ford, Amick, etc. picking up on this rumor? *crickets* If there was any ounce of truth to the GSW rumor, the Cavs would have to be taking on a HUGE amount of salary and give up future draft picks. Furthermore, since when do trades actually work out when they have been leaked to media weeks before the draft? Like i said previously, this deal was DOA right from the start.

When have I said that? I'm simply arguing that if Varejao for #7 is a possibility (which I have acknowledged it may not be), the Cavs would be crazy not to do it.

 

[I.K.W.T]

This thread is getting bad. Real bad.

 

[NtG]

All this talk about Varejao and playoff runs got me thinking about something I saw on Twitter yesterday. Someone I follow was comparing the reg. season and playoff PER's of Dwyane Wade and Dirk Nowitzki. He found that, for every year after the 06 postseason, Dirk's playoff PER typically went up from the reg. season, while Wade's tended to dip in the playoffs. Why is this relevant? Well, I remember having a discussion about Varejao's lack of impact in the last two postseasons the Cavs played.

I'm not really a fan of PER. I think it used incorrectly and treated as the be-all, end-all by those in favor of advanced stats. However, there is something to it. And if you look at Andy's PER (as well as other advanced metrics such as TS%, TRB%, WS/48), all his numbers tend to decrease in the postseason. Why is this? You can draw your own conclusions, but I have my own theory (that I can remember being thrown out there two years ago). Andy's biggest attribute is the fact that he never takes a play off. Regular season, postseason, 1st quarter, 4th quarter, he plays every possession like its his last. That's great during the regular season. Most guys don't play every game hard, let alone every possession, and it really helps the team win those close games where the smallest things become an even greater focus.

The problem is that this doesn't happen in the playoffs. When the playoffs arrive, EVERYONE is playing hard. Once everyone is expending the same amount of energy and effort, that's where speed, quickness, athleticism, and skill come into play. Suddenly, Andy's advantage on those more talented than him is gone. As a result, he's less effective.

Now, this has been the case each of the last three postseasons, otherwise known as the prime of Andy's athletic career. He's suffered several injuries since then, and he's gotten older. Best-case scenario, this team is competing in 2-3 years (which, if I'm being honest, I find to be a pipe dream). By that time, Andy is 31/32 and already in 10th or 11th season. That's a lot of miles, and its not even getting into the Olympics this year, so Andy really won't have a summer to rehab any nagging issues. This is already a guy who's seen his effectiveness take a hit when the real season starts, and we're expecting him to play at just as high a level 2-3 years down the line? Sorry, but if you believe that, then you're living in some sort of fantasy world where fatigue and injuries don't exist.

Bottom line: If you have the chance to flip Andy for a top-7 pick in a strong draft, you do it and don't look back. If this really is a possibility (which is another post in itself), then the Cavs MUST take advantage.


(For those that want to compare Andy's reg. season and postseason numbers for themselves, here you go: Anderson Varejao NBA & ABA Statistics | Basketball-Reference.com)

Would this not be the case for MKG also?

 

[BigErieCavsFan]

If you really wouldn't trade AV and 24 for 7, you are crazy. Absolutely crazy. What more could you ask for?

I have grown to like and appreciate Varejao more and more every single season, but you have to take that chance. You have to put young players with star potential on this team and hope to hit.

I have to admit, if it's truly AV and 24 for 7, I have to do it. I used the 9th pick as my limit a few months ago. I guess 7 and the 24th is about the same. But, if it includes taking a contract, I would push for keeping 24 and using 33 or 34 with AV.

I'm honestly one of the biggest Andy homers and deep inside really hope we can't get that much for him. I just want him to prove to all you tanker/Andy isn't worth shit/Andy's injury prone guys that he is worth it when he's a still a major cog in us winning in an a few years...

 

[czvo]

Would this not be the case for MKG also?

Except MKG also has excellent speed, quickness, and athleticism.

 

[ajz20]

Looking more and more like Drummond will be there at 7, whether we get the pic or not,
Sam Amick ‏@sam_amick

Starting to agree RT @JohnCanzanoBFT: NBA GM tells me he thinks Blazers take Lillard at No. 6, & wouldn't chance trying to get him at No. 11

 

[NarlCavs]

I'd think that this Andy/#7 deal would have to be part of a three team deal, Andy's value is much higher for a contending team seeking that final piece. Something like Andy & #24 to the sixers, Iggy to the Warriors and #7 to us (please misc fillers).

I don't buy the rumors connecting the Cavs to the Warriors #7 but if a deal is ever discussed this idea makes sense for everyone and seems fair to everyone. Does seem it would have to be a 3 team deal for anything involving the Cavs & Warriors.

In discussing any possible Cavs moves or players involved the long term should always take precedence over the short term.

 

[sailfish]

Looking more and more like Drummond will be there at 7, whether we get the pic or not,
Sam Amick ‏@sam_amick

Starting to agree RT @JohnCanzanoBFT: NBA GM tells me he thinks Blazers take Lillard at No. 6, & wouldn't chance trying to get him at No. 11

That's fine, but I'm not getting my hopes up on acquiring the #7 pick from Golden State.
It sounds like Houston is offering Dalembert, who has only a partially guaranteed contract, and either #14 or #16 for the chance to move up, likely for Drummond. That's a better deal than Varejao + #24, so the Warriors should take the Houston offer, if that's on the table. Other teams can/will beat a trade offer of AV + #24.

 

[EdMonix11]

I have to admit, if it's truly AV and 24 for 7, I have to do it. I used the 9th pick as my limit a few months ago. I guess 7 and the 24th is about the same. But, if it includes taking a contract, I would push for keeping 24 and using 33 or 34 with AV.

I'm honestly one of the biggest Andy homers and deep inside really hope we can't get that much for him. I just want him to prove to all you tanker/Andy isn't worth shit/Andy's injury prone guys that he is worth it when he's a still a major cog in us winning in an a few years...

If the rumor had an ounce of truth, which i'm convinced it doesn't, the Cavs would certainly be taking back Biedrins and giving up a future pick or two.