• Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.

2016 NFL draft, Day Two

Do Not Sell My Personal Information
Patriots take QB in 3rd, two years after taking one in second: "Pats did it again"

Browns take QB in 3rd: "Browns lit a 3rd on fire"
 
Patriots take QB in 3rd, two years after taking one in second: "Pats did it again"

Browns take QB in 3rd: "Browns lit a 3rd on fire"
I think that has more to do with his opinion on Kessler as a prospect than the position he plays
 
Day Two: Love, Live, Laugh

I watched Day Two of the draft this morning on tape delay with constant spoilers Friday evening. I'll keep with the organization of my feedback in Day One.

Love: The Browns are still being labeled "Moneyball" by NFL Network analysts at every move, which makes me picture @MoFlo throwing a nerd ball at his television constantly. However, the names the Browns keep selecting put up outstanding raw stats in premium conferences. Selecting the two sack leaders in Division 1 college football should upgrade the limp edge containment and pass rush of the past two seasons. As much as I hated watching weak offensive skill positions the past two years, half assed play from the defensive edge from Kruger, Mingo, Hughes, and Starks felt worse. With Armonty Bryant getting into legal trouble, the edge needed an upgrade. I had Coleman high as a potential right tackle, and felt the Browns got value where he was selected. Some will mention Thune from Centerville going to the Patriots, but Coleman has the right body and mindset to start at right tackle for a long time.

Live: I thought Nassib would be a great 4-3 defensive end because he slips past offensive linemen rather than push linemen back to shed. Right now, he has some technique issues to get a handle on before he will be a plus run defender. Similarly, Ogbah is going to have the same learning curve Orchard had as a rookie, learning to be a full time linebacker in the 3-4. That means approaching the run game and pass coverage responsibility differently. Similarly, Coleman is a little raw in techniques, he will be better in year two than as a rookie. He may need to ease into the starting role behind Pazstor. Kessler is a player I've seen a lot. Never moved the needle for me, but I trust Hue.

Laugh: Why such a value on 4th rounders? I see some quality left on the board, but the Browns do miss out on some 2nd WR prospects with that curious trade down. I can't answer that until the draft concludes. This team still has reserves penciled in at both starting safeties. Who is replacing H back/fullback from last year? Who starts opposite Coleman? How long has undrafted Crow been miscast as a starter? This 4th round is a big round.
 
Day Two: Love, Live, Laugh

I watched Day Two of the draft this morning on tape delay with constant spoilers Friday evening. I'll keep with the organization of my feedback in Day One.

Love: The Browns are still being labeled "Moneyball" by NFL Network analysts at every move, which makes me picture @MoFlo throwing a nerd ball at his television constantly. However, the names the Browns keep selecting put up outstanding raw stats in premium conferences. Selecting the two sack leaders in Division 1 college football should upgrade the limp edge containment and pass rush of the past two seasons. As much as I hated watching weak offensive skill positions the past two years, half assed play from the defensive edge from Kruger, Mingo, Hughes, and Starks felt worse. With Armonty Bryant getting into legal trouble, the edge needed an upgrade. I had Coleman high as a potential right tackle, and felt the Browns got value where he was selected. Some will mention Thune from Centerville going to the Patriots, but Coleman has the right body and mindset to start at right tackle for a long time.

Live: I thought Nassib would be a great 4-3 defensive end because he slips past offensive linemen rather than push linemen back to shed. Right now, he has some technique issues to get a handle on before he will be a plus run defender. Similarly, Ogbah is going to have the same learning curve Orchard had as a rookie, learning to be a full time linebacker in the 3-4. That means approaching the run game and pass coverage responsibility differently. Similarly, Coleman is a little raw in techniques, he will be better in year two than as a rookie. He may need to ease into the starting tole behind Pazstor. Kessler is a player I've seen a lot. Never moved the needle for me, but I trust Hue.

Laugh: Why such a value on 4th rounders? I see some quality left on the board, but the Browns do miss out on some 2nd WR prospects with that curious trade down. I can't answer that until the draft concludes. This team still has reserves penciled in at both starting safeties. Who is replacing H back/fullback from last year? Who starts opposite Coleman? How long has undrafted Crow been miscast as a starter? This 4th round is a big round.

The Browns just traded the 100th pick to the Raiders. I am hoping they can get Kenneth Dixon or Pharoah Cooper with their next 4th rounder...
 
People wanted us to roll the dice on a deteriorating knee with the 32nd pick citing "we have enough picks to afford that risk," but are bitching and moaning about taking a quarterback with our third pick in the third round?

I know, I mean the moaning and groaning over this pick. And Hue really likes him.

The nerve of Hue to wasting a third round pick on a guy he really likes. Fire him now!
 
I know, I mean the moaning and groaning over this pick. And Hue really likes him.

The nerve of Hue to wasting a third round pick on a guy he really likes. Fire him now!


It wasn't just "a" third rounder. It was a bottom of the round pick.
 
But it is the QB position - that's exactly why it is acceptable.

Why dont more get this. I dont like the Kessler pick, but a 3rd round QB projects to be a backup/

If Kessler is with the Browns for 8 years and is nothing more than a backup or solid spot starter, then its not a bad pick. That is what a late 3rd round QB projects. The Brady's are the exceptions not the rule.
 
Laugh: Why such a value on 4th rounders? I see some quality left on the board, but the Browns do miss out on some 2nd WR prospects with that curious trade down. I can't answer that until the draft concludes.

I think this is a huge part of "moneyball" coming to the NFL, and I think it is brilliant. DePodesta has identified two critical mistakes other teams make, and has developed strategies to take advantage of them.

1. Teams undervalue draft picks in future years. This has been commented upon a lot, but the draft point system, as reflected by how a lot of teams address the draft,reduce the value of a pick by one round if it is for a future year. What that means is that if a GM makes a "trade down" investment in the first year, he can gain massively disproportionate benefits in future years. And if you do it right, you can keep it going for years, having 5 or so picks in the top 3 rounds each year. That is a monstrous long-term advantage to be gained over other teams.

2. Teams overestimate their own ability to pick "winners". This is the recognition I think is so brilliant. Statistically, we know that year to year, the chance of a drafted player becoming a starter drops from round to round. But after the first three rounds, the dropoff begins flattening out. The chances of finding a starter (or even a contributor) in the fourth isn't that much greater than finding on in the fifth, which isn't that much different from finding one in the sixth, down to the seventh.

Nevertheless, a lot of fans and teams think the smart thing to do is to package a couple of fifths to move up into the fourth, etc.. We hear it all the time when a team has accumulated a lot of picks -- fans and pundits say that you then package them to move up and get "your guy". "Oh, we have 11 picks -- no way we'll make them all. We'll use them to trade up!"

Big mistake! For the most part, GM's are fooling themselves if they think they've spotted something that everyone else missed. Generally, trade-ups are going to reduce your chances of finding a starter because you are getting fewer tickets in the hopper. Notice that despite gaining all these picks, we have yet to trade up even once. This is the exact opposite of the last regime!

That's my theory, anyway. So I started looking for support, and here's what I found -- an article by a Harvard statician (gee, what a coincidence), showing that trading down to get more players actually increases your chance of finding starters.

https://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2012/04/25/dont-trade-up-in-the-nfl-draft/

Obviously, impact guys may be different, but consider this -- are you more likely to find a starter if you draft one guy in the middle of the 4th, or two guys in the middle of the fifth? The math and history tell us it's the latter.

So, here's my theory on the structural side (as opposed to the talent evaluation side) of football moneyball.

1. Trade for future picks as an investment, then live off the "interest" in future seasons.

2. The draft after the first couple of rounds is basically a numbers game. More picks are better than trading up and having fewer picks.

ETA: Just think if it turns out they are correct on this -- and I think the stats show they are. We will have a tremendous structural advantage over other teams that fall too much in love with certain guys and waste picks to trade up. Because think of it -- if you do manage to trade up, you're outbidding every single other team in the league -- paying more than every single other team is willing to pay. Realistically, what are the odds that you're "right", and everyone else is wrong?

Stay pat, or take advantage of the patsies who want to trade up. That's how you gain the true advantage.

Fooking brilliant.
 
Last edited:
Why dont more get this. I dont like the Kessler pick, but a 3rd round QB projects to be a backup/

If Kessler is with the Browns for 8 years and is nothing more than a backup or solid spot starter, then its not a bad pick. That is what a late 3rd round QB projects. The Brady's are the exceptions not the rule.

Having a long-term, experienced backup who is smart and familiar with the system is a real advantage. He can help acclimate top-level talent, spot-start as necessary without letting down the rest of the team, and, sometimes, end up being something more. The chance of finding a starter at the end of the third round is only 30% anyway.

http://datascopeanalytics.com/blog/the-chance-of-a-bust-in-the-nfl-draft/
 
View: https://twitter.com/dustinfox37/status/726490425754816512


Saw this tweet from Fox and remembered that DePodesta sat down with Parcells before the draft to pick his brain. Just interesting to note.

That is interesting and maybe a bit encouraging... People have painted the Browns' "moneyball" front office as numb to intangible qualities and old-guard knowledge. Picking the mind of a football guy who has so much experience in player evaluation and coaching can't be bad. It really does suggest that the Browns' brass is not too close-minded in their approach.
 

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Video

Episode 3-15: "Cavs Survive and Advance"

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Spotify

Episode 3:15: Cavs Survive and Advance
Top