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2023-24 Season | Game #5 | Cavs @ Knicks | Nov. 1, 2023 | 7:30 EST

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Wham with the Right Hand

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Looks like a rerun from last night with the Cavs missing three of their top six players and not in a position to be competitive, especially on the road.

I expect the bench will get another opportunity to make an impression. Bates actually got to play in the first quarter last night and was in for 23 minutes while Porter got 22. Strus gets a chance to rebound from an awful game (6 points in 33 minutes). The Cavs actually got more offensive boards than the Knicks last night (14-12), so that's a good sign, although they were beat on second chance points 20-7.
 
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Interesting difference in reactions to last night's loss. JBB had a "what are you going to do - it is what it is" reaction while Strus was more like "this is completely unacceptable".

We would love to be healthy, but we understand this is an 82-game thing that we’re working for...You accept the reality of the situation you’re facing and try to get the most out of it. - JBB

You can make all the excuses you want. At the end of the day, they played harder than us, they out-toughed us, they beat the s--- out of us....They came in and did the same thing that they did last year. Hopefully that lights a flare in our locker room and hopefully we respond tomorrow. We have to be better. - Max Strus


JBB says let's be patient, get healthy, and it's a long season. Just "accept the reality of the situation". Strus says we have to be tougher and we have to respond tomorrow night. One says we're going to accept defeat until we can get our guys back, the other says this shit needs to stop now.

I can't disagree with JBB. Really - Dean Wade starting? Two guys playing over 20 minutes each who had zero points in their NBA careers coming into the game? Tristan Thompson? I don't think it's a matter of "toughness" when half your team is either past their prime, played in college last year, or have career scoring averages of 5.3 and 8.1 ppg (Wade and Okoro).

Strus said none of that should matter.

We did not [play our game]. We played their game. We did what they wanted us to do. Played right into their hands and that didn’t work for us. It shouldn’t ever matter who is out there for us. We have enough guys who know how to play basketball in here. We need to be better. - Strus

I appreciate Max's "no excuses, next man up" attitude, but really? If the Cavs were totally healthy and the Knicks were missing Brunson, Robinson, and Quickley, would they be beating themselves up if they lost to the Cavs?

Anyway, let's see if the Cavs come out and play differently tonight with the same personnel. I guess there's a chance LeVert could play, but Garland, Allen, and Jerome are out.

The trio of Brunson, Barrett, and Randle were too tough for the Cavs to handle. They were +19, +16, and +19 in an 18-point win. Hartenstein was +12 and Quickley scored 18 points in 24 minutes off the bench, taking just 11 shots.

I don't think it was toughness - these guys are just more skilled than our guys. They're all veterans in their primes unlike some of our guys who are either just arriving (Bates, Porter, Merrill), finishing up (Thompson), or never arrived (Wade, Jones).

And Wade/Niang vs. two time All-Star Julius Randle at PF? Come on. We needed Allen to guard Robinson so Mobley could check Randle. Randle was just 5-for-14 but makes his living drawing fouls. It's harder for him to do that against Mobley's length. We needed Garland to match Brunson's offense and LeVert to guard Quickley.

I wish the Knicks were in our tournament bracket so we don't have to wait until March to see them play each other at full strength (hopefully).
 
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Interesting difference in reactions to last night's loss. JBB had a "what are you going to do - it is what it is" reaction while Strus was more like "this is completely unacceptable".

We would love to be healthy, but we understand this is an 82-game thing that we’re working for...You accept the reality of the situation you’re facing and try to get the most out of it. - JBB

You can make all the excuses you want. At the end of the day, they played harder than us, they out-toughed us, they beat the s--- out of us....They came in and did the same thing that they did last year. Hopefully that lights a flare in our locker room and hopefully we respond tomorrow. We have to be better. - Max Strus


JBB says let's be patient, get healthy, and it's a long season. Just "accept the reality of the situation". Strus says we have to be tougher and we have to respond tomorrow night. One says we're going to accept defeat until we can get our guys back, the other says this shit needs to stop now.

I can't disagree with JBB. Really - Dean Wade starting? Two guys playing over 20 minutes each who had zero points in their NBA careers coming into the game? Tristan Thompson? I don't think it's a matter of "toughness" when half your team is either past their prime, played in college last year, or have career scoring averages of 5.3 and 8.1 ppg (Wade and Okoro).

Strus said none of that should matter.

We did not [play our game]. We played their game. We did what they wanted us to do. Played right into their hands and that didn’t work for us. It shouldn’t ever matter who is out there for us. We have enough guys who know how to play basketball in here. We need to be better. - Strus

I appreciate Max's "no excuses, next man up" attitude, but really? If the Cavs were totally healthy and the Knicks were missing Brunson, Robinson, and Quickley, would they be beating themselves up if they lost to the Cavs?

Anyway, let's see if the Cavs come out and play differently tonight with the same personnel. I guess there's a chance LeVert could play, but Garland, Allen, and Jerome are out.

The trio of Brunson, Barrett, and Randle were too tough for the Cavs to handle. They were +19, +16, and +19 in an 18-point win. Hartenstein was +12 and Quickley scored 18 points in 24 minutes off the bench, taking just 11 shots.

I don't think it was toughness - these guys are just more skilled than our guys. They're all veterans in their primes unlike some of our guys who are either just arriving (Bates, Porter, Merrill), finishing up (Thompson), or never arrived (Wade, Jones).

And Wade/Niang vs. two time All-Star Julius Randle at PF? Come on. We needed Allen to guard Robinson so Mobley could check Randle. Randle was just 5-for-14 but makes his living drawing fouls. It's harder for him to do that against Mobley's length. We needed Garland to match Brunson's offense and LeVert to guard Quickley.

I wish the Knicks were in our tournament bracket so we don't have to wait until March to see them play each other at full strength (hopefully).
Strus has been to the finals on teams that are equally out-manned under one of the greatest coaches of all time. I trust his judgment over JBB's.
 
BTW, there were 9 out the 11 guys suited up last night that had to stay in the locker room for injury treatments after the game last night. Those were the “healthy” ones… that’s not counting the 4 who were out.
 
Give Strus a lot of credit for the no excuse route. What happen to the next man up mentality?
 
We did not [play our game]. We played their game. We did what they wanted us to do. Played right into their hands and that didn’t work for us. It shouldn’t ever matter who is out there for us. We have enough guys who know how to play basketball in here. We need to be better. - Strus
This is the one thing I agree with Strus on. Even when shorthanded, maybe especially when shorthanded, you can't let the Knicks dictate the game. I'm not blaming JBB for the losses, the losses are primarily about the injuries, but JBB is proving incapable of anything that looks like an adjustment. Good Lord, this will be the 7th time we've played them in the last 10 games, and we look like we are doing nothing different than in game 1 of the playoffs. That would make sense if we were holding our own, but we've won exactly 1 game against them! Try something different. And I'm not talking about lineup changes - lineup changes are the lazy way to look like you are doing something when you aren't. Try a different scheme, a different way of coverage, maybe run a few different plays. To quote Strus quit "playing right into their hands".
 
BTW, there were 9 out the 11 guys suited up last night that had to stay in the locker room for injury treatments after the game last night. Those were the “healthy” ones… that’s not counting the 4 who were out.
What is this due to?

Was training camp too hard/strenuous?

Is the Cavs training and nutrition staff lacking?

Normal NBA wear and tear from in court contact?

Nobody played more than 33 minutes last night and only that guy over 30 minutes

I’m guessing/hoping a lot of these were just muscle treatment from bruises and body to body contact
 
Wade was ten times better than Mobley guarding Randle last night. Not even close.
There can be no rational complaints about Dean's defense this season. He has guarded every position 1-5 and done a remarkably good job against all of them. Plus, he rarely gives up open 3's. This may be blasphemy, but he's been as valuable on the defensive end as anyone on the team so far this year.
 
Max Strus is bringing that Pat Riley attitude in here. The theme of his message isn’t wrong though.

I’m not saying our guys don’t want to win, but I’m questioning their ability to overcome adversity. Some of that comes with maturity and some of it is more innate.

For example Jarrett Allen saying something last year like “even for me the lights were brighter than expected” ? What did you expect exactly ?

There’s a lack of idk, grit with some of these guys.
 
What is this due to?

Was training camp too hard/strenuous?

Is the Cavs training and nutrition staff lacking?

Normal NBA wear and tear from in court contact?

Nobody played more than 33 minutes last night and only that guy over 30 minutes

I’m guessing/hoping a lot of these were just muscle treatment from bruises and body to body contact

I have no idea since I’m not there every day but I was there last night. And I was told there were 9 of them in there together after the game and that had to be the record for the most ever.
 
Guys get treatments quite a bit after games for any number of things.

That said if we have 9 guys seeking treatment for injuries… for a roster that is pretty damn young… 4 games into the season.

That’s pretty uh weird.
 
Guys get treatments quite a bit after games for any number of things.

That said if we have 9 guys seeking treatment for injuries… for a roster that is pretty damn young… 4 games into the season.

That’s pretty uh weird.

Players talked about the intense, uncomfortable, and exhausting training camp all throughout Media Day
 

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