#8: Justin Gilbert, CB, Oklahoma State University

[The Voice]

I was never high on the Gilbert pick because of this reason... I hate guys that shoot up the board after the combine... Big deal, he is fast.... watch the game tape. Dennard and fuller were vastly superior players in college.

He didn't shoot up the boards that much because of his combine. He dominated in college based off his athleticism.

They were hoping to teach him technique and they've stated he's shown flashes of what he should be able to do one day. He needs to grow up first. They won't say what he did, but a lot of the players have said preparation, so he's probably trying to coast by and not showing up on time.

Haden was playing with the flu on Sunday just to show gilbert what he should be doing.

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[AZ_]

I was never high on the Gilbert pick because of this reason... I hate guys that shoot up the board after the combine... Big deal, he is fast.... watch the game tape. Dennard and fuller were vastly superior players in college.

That's not nearly what happened.

And no, they most certainly were not.


As bad a season as Gilbert had, Dennard played worse in less time.

Gilbert: -2.8 PFF rating on 373 snaps
Fuller: -18.4 PFF rating on 877 snaps
Dennard: -7.6 PFF raring on 241 snaps


Their careers aren't written yet, no matter how much people complain.

 

[Phills14]

That's not nearly what happened.

And no, they most certainly were not.


As bad a season as Gilbert had, Dennard played worse in less time.

Gilbert: -2.8 PFF rating on 373 snaps
Fuller: -18.4 PFF rating on 877 snaps
Dennard: -7.6 PFF raring on 241 snaps


Their careers aren't written yet, no matter how much people complain.

I'm very surprised by all those numbers. Fuller entered the league like a bat out of hell then got injured. Apparently he had a pretty shitty year after he returned.

 

[Kyrieville]

That's not nearly what happened.

And no, they most certainly were not.


As bad a season as Gilbert had, Dennard played worse in less time.

Gilbert: -2.8 PFF rating on 373 snaps
Fuller: -18.4 PFF rating on 877 snaps
Dennard: -7.6 PFF raring on 241 snaps


Their careers aren't written yet, no matter how much people complain.

What is PFF rating?

I can't imagine anyone playing worse than Gilbert did this year. Gilbert was a project with "elite" measurements and speed. Draft that late in the first or in the second, not in the top 10. Draft a guy that is ready to contribute... game tape tells that story.

 

[AZ_]

What is PFF rating?

I can't imagine anyone playing worse than Gilbert did this year. Gilbert was a project with "elite" measurements and speed. Draft that late in the first or in the second, not in the top 10. Draft a guy that is ready to contribute... game tape tells that story.

PFF = Pro Football Focus, a grading system used by NFL franchises to measure postitive and negative impact from play-to-play.

The game tape tells us that Dennard and Fuller were markedly worse.

Gilbert was not even remotely a project, he was a Walter Camp/FWAA All-American, First-Team All Big 12 and a Thorpe Award Finalist.

Gilbert is held back by one thing and one thing only, Gilbert.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Gilbert is held back by one thing and one thing only, Gilbert.

I do think he got better as the season progressed, last week of the season withstanding. The reason you are seeing poor scores across the board for top cornerbacks seems to be the rule change for coverage. I don't think many cornerbacks knew the extent which hand checks can be hidden until about week 13 of the season. If veterans were struggling with it, rookie corners were struggling even more. I wanted Khalil Mack going into the first round or a trade down for the best cornerback prospect, and dammit that is exactly what Farmer did. So while I don't love Gilbert's brain farts, cornerback isn't all that cerebral a position. Quick reflexes and ideal size will go a long way towards covering up mistakes. I think he will put it all together eventually.

 

[AZ_]

EDIT to my original post, I had the wrong Dennard (was looking at Alfonso)

Darqueze Dennard played just 61 snaps this season for Cincy.

 

[Kyrieville]

What was his PFF in those 61 snaps? He had a hip injury in the preseason that lingered.

 

[AZ_]

What was his PFF in those 61 snaps? He had a hip injury in the preseason that lingered.

0.9

Had little to do with his hip, and more to do with the fact that he was the fifth best CB on the roster.

He was very active as a special teamer.

 

[Pick6]

I do think he got better as the season progressed, last week of the season withstanding. The reason you are seeing poor scores across the board for top cornerbacks seems to be the rule change for coverage. I don't think many cornerbacks knew the extent which hand checks can be hidden until about week 13 of the season. If veterans were struggling with it, rookie corners were struggling even more. I wanted Khalil Mack going into the first round or a trade down for the best cornerback prospect, and dammit that is exactly what Farmer did. So while I don't love Gilbert's brain farts, cornerback isn't all that cerebral a position. Quick reflexes and ideal size will go a long way towards covering up mistakes. I think he will put it all together eventually.

You think he progressed? One could argue regressed. Desir was injured all season, then came in and played over him. They even converted Poyer from Safety when Haden was hurt to play over him.

 

[Randolphkeys]

You think he progressed? One could argue regressed. Desir was injured all season, then came in and played over him. They even converted Poyer from Safety when Haden was hurt to play over him.

I didn't watch the games after the Indianapolis game with much scrutiny, and flat-out skipped the second Cincinnati game. The only person who cares about football in my extended California family is my wife's uncle. We were outvoted often on the holiday functions, especially when the Browns and Niners seemed done.

I thought he had some decent games in the middle of the season, but was much more painful on the eyes in the preseason and first two games of the regular season. I think Whitner is a better judge than I am, and he said Gilbert wasn't approaching practice and preparation properly. That I believe 100%. But, I think a cornerback isn't as cerebral a position as quarterback. So, I do believe he has a better chance at straightening out than Manziel.

Was I thrilled with his performance this season? Absolutely not. I really just saw cornerback as a huge need at this time last year and I'm glad it has been addressed. We have one heck of a defensive backfield right now.

 

[AZ_]

You think he progressed? One could argue regressed. Desir was injured all season, then came in and played over him. They even converted Poyer from Safety when Haden was hurt to play over him.

You're trying to insinuate that the decision to play Desir and Poyer was based on talent.

As we learned, it was more disciplinary.

After two ugly weeks in the first three, he was pretty solid in his time thereafter.

Posted a +2.8 PFF grade from week 5 until the end of the season.

 

[Pick6]

You're trying to insinuate that the decision to play Desir and Poyer was based on talent.

As we learned, it was more disciplinary.

After two ugly weeks in the first three, he was pretty solid in his time thereafter.

Posted a +2.8 PFF grade from week 5 until the end of the season.

And you're insinuating that is was disciplinary rather than because of on field performance when in reality we have no proof of that. We know he wasn't fully committed, and we know he was suspended the last game for being late to a meeting.

His snap count decreased as the season went on. Coaches were doing anything they could to keep him off the field. I know we aren't going to agree. If he was being disciplined, I think he would have been deactivated (see West earlier in the season).

That doesn't mean I think he is a bust or will be a bust before anyone says it.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Plenty of cornerbacks are drafted for being physical prototypes, only to struggle as rookies. Darius Slay of the Lions immediately comes to mind as a guy who wasn't very effective as a rookie, but this year he looked like a solid starter for years to come. Of course, we all know Skrine was drafted solely because he could run a 4.3 in the 40 yard dash. It took him time, but his technique caught up to his natural gifts this season.

 

[AZ_]

And you're insinuating that is was disciplinary rather than because of on field performance when in reality we have no proof of that. We know he wasn't fully committed, and we know he was suspended the last game for being late to a meeting.

His snap count decreased as the season went on. Coaches were doing anything they could to keep him off the field. I know we aren't going to agree. If he was being disciplined, I think he would have been deactivated (see West earlier in the season).

That doesn't mean I think he is a bust or will be a bust before anyone says it.

Other than countless quotes from players and coaches, no proof at all.

Desir and Poyer played over him because he didn't prepare well enough throughout the week.

His snap count decreased because K'Waun Williams plays the slot, and played it as a high level.

The only thing holding Gilbert back at this point is Gilbert, certainly not talent.