A few ideas for the cavs to round-out the roster

[gourimoko]

I started thinking about what we might have an opportunity to do. Like i said in the first post, we could do it, but we would have to sign almost no one. I would rather have av, and 2 or 3 more players of his level than Bosh. I dont think Bosh is a difference maker on defense, although he is very talented offensively. The only bigs that can score that are defensive difference makers available are Dwight and Amare, both staying imo. I do believe Bosh might be available, but what it would take to get there just might be to much.

That being said, Ferry has proven me wrong. If we want a shot at Bosh, we let AV walk, let pavs, snow, wally and Ben expire, sign no more than 6 million on the books for 2010. That will be a bit more than just the rookies.

Our team would look like this.

pg........Mo.......gibson.....................min contract
sg........west.....2010 1st rounder......min contract
sf.........LBJ.......2009 2nd rounder.....min contract
pf........hickson...jackson..................min contract
c.........Bosh......2009 1st rounder......2010 2nd rounder

is that enough to win a title?

or, do not worry about 2010, and trade when an opportunity comes up. If thats the case, our team could look something like this


pg........Mo........gibson...........................min contract
sg........Redd......West............................2010 1st rounder
sf.........LBJ........2009 1st rounder............2010 2nd rounder
pf........AK47.......hickson..........................jackson
c.........AV..........Z (signed as back up)......2009 2nd rounder

We would have to renounce Z in the first scenerio, and only be able to offer him a min contract, which he would most likely just make him retire...which is fine, but I just think team 2 is a stronger team, but I could be wrong. Also, I am using Redd and AK47 as examples, but it could just as easily be Carter and Colison, Or Salmons and Brad Miller, Mike Miller and Okafor....and in the first scenerio we have all our draft picks for sure, in the second, we could end up trading away draft picks to aquire talent.

You make a compelling argument, sir! And that's one helluva roster, I have to admit.

 

[Lee]

Chris Bosh is about a twenty and ten guy. Next time you compare AV to him you lose a testicle.

Its not that AV is as good as bosh or anything like that, but first of all, he is the primary scorer in toronto. Here Bosh is a 20/9 guy, not bad by any means. If Av would start he would be a 15/10 guy imo. Also, AV plays better defense and can play center more effectively than Bosh. If we want Bosh we have to let AV go and not use any of our expiring deals to improve the roster. So, no redd, no mike miller, no vince carter, etc. I also think Bosh is a soft defender. If we are going to dream, have dreams of Amare or Dwight Howard. Those are interior defenders in a MB system playing next to Lebron would be a true difference maker. Its about building a roster, not going after the one best player we can get. We tried that with Larry Hughes, didnt work so well.

 

[Mdog1]

Bosh will be learning from JO this year, and he is IMO one of the best defenders in the league when healthy. JO will hopefully teach Bosh grit, and how to position well to get those blocks and stops. Isn't Bosh the youngest player to 1000 rebounds?

 

[Hydroponic3385]

Its not that AV is as good as bosh or anything like that, but first of all, he is the primary scorer in toronto. Here Bosh is a 20/9 guy, not bad by any means. If Av would start he would be a 15/10 guy imo. Also, AV plays better defense and can play center more effectively than Bosh. If we want Bosh we have to let AV go and not use any of our expiring deals to improve the roster. So, no redd, no mike miller, no vince carter, etc. I also think Bosh is a soft defender. If we are going to dream, have dreams of Amare or Dwight Howard. Those are interior defenders in a MB system playing next to Lebron would be a true difference maker. Its about building a roster, not going after the one best player we can get. We tried that with Larry Hughes, didnt work so well.

Bosh blows away AV offensively, and although he may not offer up the same "intangibles" as AV, I have no reason to believe Bosh won't be a very nice defender further in his career. The two are simply not comparable. I love Andy, and I think he's an ideal first big off the bench for any NBA team, but Bosh is a superstar caliber player. And you make it seem like Bosh would barely be a part of our offensive system...our offense is in DIRE need of a offensive big who can score down low. He'd easily get 20+ points and 10+ boards. He'd also make Lebron's life a lot easier.

 

[Lee]

Bosh blows away AV offensively, and although he may not offer up the same "intangibles" as AV, I have no reason to believe Bosh won't be a very nice defender further in his career. The two are simply not comparable. I love Andy, and I think he's an ideal first big off the bench for any NBA team, but Bosh is a superstar caliber player. And you make it seem like Bosh would barely be a part of our offensive system...our offense is in DIRE need of a offensive big who can score down low. He'd easily get 20+ points and 10+ boards. He'd also make Lebron's life a lot easier.

I agree, I like Bosh, would love to somehow trade for him, but its almost impossible to get below the salary cap in todays NBA and keep any significant talent. Lebron will be almost 1/3 of the cap, Bosh almost another 1/3...that leaves 25 million for the remaining players...9 mill of which goes to mo. then there is boobie and west, taking up another 7 million or so....iit leaves a team very thin. Boston pulled it off on the trade market. Being under the cap is fools gold. Doesnt work for teams looking to compete that year. Philly pulled it off, but they might not be as good as some might think. Look what it did for golden state and the clippers. Nothing good. Memphis next year will benifit, but they wont compete next year, but rather a couple years after that.

We need to trade our assets for talent, Let other teams trade away talent for expirings trying to get under the cap for 2010. We then get those teams talent, pay a huge luxury tax, but we are ok because glibert is willing to pay luxury tax to make the team better. I will say it one last time. Being under the cap is fools gold for a team looking to compete for the championship.

 

[Mdog1]

I agree, I like Bosh, would love to somehow trade for him, but its almost impossible to get below the salary cap in todays NBA and keep any significant talent. Lebron will be almost 1/3 of the cap, Bosh almost another 1/3...that leaves 25 million for the remaining players...9 mill of which goes to mo. then there is boobie and west, taking up another 7 million or so....iit leaves a team very thin. Boston pulled it off on the trade market. Being under the cap is fools gold. Doesnt work for teams looking to compete that year. Philly pulled it off, but they might not be as good as some might think. Look what it did for golden state and the clippers. Nothing good. Memphis next year will benifit, but they wont compete next year, but rather a couple years after that.

We need to trade our assets for talent, Let other teams trade away talent for expirings trying to get under the cap for 2010. We then get those teams talent, pay a huge luxury tax, but we are ok because glibert is willing to pay luxury tax to make the team better. I will say it one last time. Being under the cap is fools gold for a team looking to compete for the championship.

Never thought of it that way. We would have enough to sign a player, then we'd be screwed for a bench.

 

[Lee]

Never thought of it that way. We would have enough to sign a player, then we'd be screwed for a bench.

i came to that conclusion recently, a 7 year player's max is 30%...2 max players when under the cap leaves you at 40% remaining for the team or your over the cap. The offseason you are under the cap you dont get any of your exceptions, so the remaining money would be used on our rookies. Now we would have this years rooks, next year rooks, and 2010's rooks. 6 young players....but all would be late first round or 2nd round talent. Not always a home run. Example, the best we can hope jackson becomes is a 10 minute a night bench guy. so that leaves 3 small guards, Lebron, Bosh, and 6 players to develope. We would then have 4 spots open for league min guys, but that usually means Lorenzon wright, pollard, or devin brown. Nothing to exciting. It leaves a very thin roster. Trades and draft, and proper use of the mle will get us to the promise land. That year with so many free agents, the mle should net us a pretty decent player. Maybe a more seasoned Darko or maybe even a mike miller has to settle for mle. I would rather use wally and Ben to get quality so we dont have to worry about the cap.

 

[Hydroponic3385]

I definitely agree with you about that, Lee. I was just talking about comparing Bosh and Andy.

I believe our most realistic route is either using Wally and Big Ben superbly in trades, using 1 of them in a trade (letting the other expire) and signing a fringe all-star in '10, or letting both expire (or trading Wally + something for an upgrade who expires a year later in '10) and singing 2 fringe all-stars. My idea of fringe all-stars (or just very nice roleplayers) in 2010 are Battier, Redd, Chandler, etc.

 

[Silky Smooth]

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

people, the other team has to like the trade for it to work..

If you've read some articles about available players at the deadline you would know that portland is in a position to have alot of cap space for this years free agency period and webster and frye are due for contract extensions. They i guess sort of mess up there cap space so portland maybe willing to deal them for an expiring contract(eric snow).

 

[Mdog1]

What about two guys 10-12 mil, LBJ, and then the rest. We'd have:

Mo/Boobie/DWest
FA/Dwest/drafted player
LBJ/??? who cares
JJ/DJ3/FA
FA/Z/drafted player

The two starting FA's are the 10-12 mil signings. Going on a 65 mil salary cap and 80 thresh hold we still have 21.5 million on the cap, then you take away boobie, west and Mo and that is about 20 million (20,198,643) now i'm not sure what our draft picks will be making but i'm going to assume about $900,000 each. That is $23,501,357 left on the cap. That is easily enough to sign a decent few players to fill out the roster. Hell we could even sign two 15mil FA's then go from there.

 

[Lee]

What about two guys 10-12 mil, LBJ, and then the rest. We'd have:

Mo/Boobie/DWest
FA/Dwest/drafted player
LBJ/??? who cares
JJ/DJ3/FA
FA/Z/drafted player

The two starting FA's are the 10-12 mil signings. Going on a 65 mil salary cap and 80 thresh hold we still have 21.5 million on the cap, then you take away boobie, west and Mo and that is about 20 million (20,198,643) now i'm not sure what our draft picks will be making but i'm going to assume about $900,000 each. That is $23,501,357 left on the cap. That is easily enough to sign a decent few players to fill out the roster. Hell we could even sign two 15mil FA's then go from there.

good idea, its what i am thinking, except 10-12 million doesnt get you much at center, just average player. AV is going to cost 8-10 million.

 

[Mdog1]

good idea, its what i am thinking, except 10-12 million doesnt get you much at center, just average player. AV is going to cost 8-10 million.

How does the thresh hold work? Can a team sign players until that mark? Or is it more for trades and stuff.