Addressing the hole at center

[NarlCavs]

The Hawks are going to spend money on a SF this season so they can continue their tradition of making the playoffs but never seeing the conference finals.

From judging many of the suggestions, this is also a tradition many Cavs fans seem to want to follow too.

 

[cavsfan21]

Every time I saw Zeller and Kyrie get into a pick and pop situation I felt confident that we'd at the very least get free throws. That duo might be our most underrated option IMO.


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[CavsFTW]

I have been beating this drum since the beginning of last year, but no one is listening. I will try again though.

Zeller looked like Bennett his first year. He was outclassed and out muscled. In the offseason he put on 15 lbs of muscle and came back playing like a man. I saw it in his very very limited minutes while Bynum was around. He would regularly put up a point per minute mostly off transition buckets. People started coming around on him later in the season as he got more playing time. He has improved a lot defensively, and he is our best offensive big including Hawes IMO due to his speed and divers game(shooting + post game). So what the problem? He has not been used correctly at all.

Zeller is a mismatch for opposing centers. He has the game of stretch 4, so he can pull rim protectors out of the paint, but he also has a good post game and he is 7 feet tall. He can roll to the basket and finish better than Tristan, and probably has a better handle too as he has shown the ability to go around guys. He often doesn't need that because he is an awesome mid range shooter. That 12-15 foot shot was automatic last year.

This guy regularly beats everyone down the floor. He can really get out in transition and then finish. He has fast feet like Andy but with quick ups to actually dunk the ball. He is much more athletic than given credit for. So what are his weaknesses?

IMO he has 1 major weakness, and 1 that should be easily correctable. He should be getting more rebounds at his size. He doesn't plant himself well enough aso he gets bumped off his spot for rebounds all the time. He has been working on his lower body, so that should help a little. The other minor issue that I see is his screen setting. His timing with the guards is off so that he is called for moving screen all the time. I'd blame it on the guards, but I actually think it is because he sort of "jumps" into position. He does a little hop to set himself and so when he sets the screen he looks like he is moving more than than most guys. He needs to be more low profile and set himself quicker.

Seriously, Blatt said he like to exploit mismatches. I will be heartbroken and shocked if I don't see Blatt get these guys to pass the ball ahead and get it to Zeller on the run. No one could do that last year. We could easily improve scoring by 6 or more a game just by getting it ahead and allowing him to dunk it, or go against a potentially smaller opponent in the post in transition. Once the opposing center is glued to Zeller, it is a field day for Dion, Kyrie, and our own baby Wiggins.

Zeller isn't Embiid. He doesn't have the wingspan or raw talent. He does have a very solid understanding of basketball and lots of experience. His trial by fire his rookie year led to him looking much better and stronger and more confident last year. He can be our starting center going forward because of the threats at other positions and because of his skills that create a mismatch on the other end.

Plus he is our best shot blocker, and his ability to draw O fouls lead to the same result except in that case the Cavs always get to keep the ball.

If given the choice between Zeller and Hawes to start, I'd take Zeller without hesitation. Much better bang for the buck. Zeller also has potential to be a quality starter, but I'd rather the Cavs find a starter with a proven track record. One solid season off the bench with limited minutes just doesn't scream "starter" to me.

 

[Nathan S]

From judging many of the suggestions, this is also a tradition many Cavs fans seem to want to follow too.

I understand the fear of the treadmill, but I don't think that's a serious concern for the Cavs. Our best players are all between 19 and 22 years old...we're not going to peak any time soon unless we do something drastic and trade away a big part of that core.

 

[Cavatt]

Regarding that one major weakness, he showed nice improvement there from year 1 to year 2. His per 36 rebounding numbers went from 7.8 as a rookie, to 9.7 as a sophomore.

That's good, but I do see him regularly missing rebounds that he should be able to gather in. Maybe i am just spoiled by TT and Andy? I am a big proponent of rebounding because it gets you extra opportunities and can help you win when you are shooting worse than your opponent. I think it is his blocking out that need improvement.

 

[DELONTEizDad]

Where did I say Zeller was a better player? I'll concede that Hawes is the more skilled player. That's not the argument though.

I'm saying I'd rather have Andy starting and Zeller getting 15-20 mpg than have Hawes on this team with a major role. If there was a way to get Hawes in here for $1.7 million while agreeing to play that 15-20 mpg role, I'd be all for it. That's not happening though.

Hawes is going to command too much money, and too large of a role. Hawes isn't a starting caliber big.

You brought up that Zeller was a net positive last year versus Hawes not being one without further explanation. I thought that was a pretty clear insinuation (otherwise why even mention it?) that Zeller was better, but perhaps I was wrong.

Andy isn't a starting caliber big. He can't stay healthy. Relying on him is not a legit option and really has never shown himself to be. Guy has only 182 starts in his 10 year career and I believe has only once even started half the games of a season.

Hawes might command too much money. What role he gets I think Blatt and Griffin are perfectly capable of managing if they decide to sign him.


Personally though I think we should almost completely avoid free agency and trade Tristan, Andy, plus picks for a starting C and more complete PF help- but of course saying that is easier than doing it. Marginally related also trade to get out of the Jack contract as well.

 

[dawgpridetosu]

If this doesn't make you want Gortat, I don't know what will. This is what he showed up in driving to his basketball camp in Poland.

 

[Willard513]

If this doesn't make you want Gortat, I don't know what will. This is what he showed up in driving to his basketball camp in Poland.

The tank lives again!!!!

 

[Seiklis]

Tank driving is just part of being a European Center

 

[Derek]

You brought up that Zeller was a net positive last year versus Hawes not being one without further explanation. I thought that was a pretty clear insinuation (otherwise why even mention it?) that Zeller was better, but perhaps I was wrong.

Andy isn't a starting caliber big. He can't stay healthy. Relying on him is not a legit option and really has never shown himself to be. Guy has only 182 starts in his 10 year career and I believe has only once even started half the games of a season.

Hawes might command too much money. What role he gets I think Blatt and Griffin are perfectly capable of managing if they decide to sign him.


Personally though I think we should almost completely avoid free agency and trade Tristan, Andy, plus picks for a starting C and more complete PF help- but of course saying that is easier than doing it. Marginally related also trade to get out of the Jack contract as well.

I have provided plenty of explanation on my thoughts over multiple posts. If you missed it; I'm sure you can search back through the thread, and find the posts. The point in mentioning it (that Zeller was a net positive) was that with Varejao in a starting role (when healthy) and Zeller in a reserve role that we are better off than having Hawes in a starting role.

Hawes will command too much money. I wouldn't pay him more than $5-6 million/year. Plus, the role he would play is the more concerning aspect of it in my eyes. If he's playing more than a reserve role (15-20 mpg), I don't want him.

I would like to trade for an upgrade as well. We agree on that.

 

[DELONTEizDad]

I have provided plenty of explanation on my thoughts over multiple posts. If you missed it; I'm sure you can search back through the thread, and find the posts. The point in mentioning it (that Zeller was a net positive) was that with Varejao in a starting role (when healthy) and Zeller in a reserve role that we are better off than having Hawes in a starting role.

Hawes will command too much money. I wouldn't pay him more than $5-6 million/year. Plus, the role he would play is the more concerning aspect of it in my eyes. If he's playing more than a reserve role (15-20 mpg), I don't want him.

I would like to trade for an upgrade as well. We agree on that.

We've agreed that Hawes is better than Zeller.

Andy has not started even half the games in a season 90% of the time and the one time he did it was only over half by 2-3 games.

So going with Andy/Zeller over Hawes you're almost guaranteed getting a worse starting center at least half the games (and that's being extremely generous with Andy's health.) Makes no sense.

 

[Futuredome]

We've agreed that Hawes is better than Zeller.

Andy has not started even half the games in a season 90% of the time and the one time he did it was only over half by 2-3 games.

So going with Andy/Zeller over Hawes you're almost guaranteed getting a worse starting center at least half the games (and that's being extremely generous with Andy's health.) Makes no sense.

I don't agree. Hawes is such a blackhole on defense. I was amazed at times, we had to bring in Zeller just to D up. I would be red faced, if I were Hawes.

 

[Derek]

We've agreed that Hawes is better than Zeller.

Andy has not started even half the games in a season 90% of the time and the one time he did it was only over half by 2-3 games.

So going with Andy/Zeller over Hawes you're almost guaranteed getting a worse starting center at least half the games (and that's being extremely generous with Andy's health.) Makes no sense.

Over half the games is hyperbole. I see no reason that Varejao can't give us between 60-70 games next year, he gave us 65 last year. I said I'd like to bring in somebody else, I just know that Hawes isn't the answer.

We gave him a shot, but now it's time to look elsewhere.

 

[dawgpridetosu]

I don't think we bring back Hawes if the contract is too onerous. That's not a ringing endorsement of Zeller/Andy, but moreso a belief in the flexibility of Blatt's system.

You could conceivably see lineups where where Bennett and TT are the two bigs. I would prefer a floor spacing big like Hawes, but not when our coach's offensive system is dynamic rather than static. You don't need a true post up big as long as you have players on the court effective in working around the basket on both offense and defense.

You could see it in the trade for Dwight Powell. While Powell might not ever start for us, and he may flame out and never even give us good rotation minutes, but it's that type of player that Blatt values. Skilled on offense with a high basketball IQ and the ability to guard multiple positions.

 

[Jack Brickman]

We've agreed that Hawes is better than Zeller.

The team plays better with Zeller on the floor than with Hawes on the floor. Does that not make him by technicality a better player?

Hawes may be a more skilled player, but he gives back so much on defense that I just don't want him on the team next year. And regardless, I'd rather pay Zeller two million than Hawes more than five. Zeller will be perfect for Blatt's offense.