Andrew Wiggins

[cavsfever]

Saw Minny the other night. Just watching Wiggins on the court you can see the athleticism. He's one of those guys who looks good just running around. And he gets some blow bys for dunks that look great. But his actual skills need a looot of work.

So, same as summer league, basically. So far my opinion that KLove for Wiggins was a no brainer is looking pretty good.

 

[CosmoKramer]

From my understanding, Philly is brutally analytic in a Bill Belichick type of way. Part of the MCW thought process is that there are some many good PG's in the league that it simply better to sell high (i.e. MCW) to get a better shot at value at more critical spot. You can then get a replacement level PG easier in the open market or by trade when the rest of team has improved talent wise

Agree, Philly proved how little they value the point guard position when they traded Jrue Holiday after an All-Star season.

One reason Philly might have kept MCW though (apart from him being a good young player on a great contract) is the lack of impact point guards on the market next summer.

I had looked up the upcoming FA class at point guard last night, it's underwhelming now that Kemba Walker and Ricky Rubio signed extensions. Rajon Rondo is the best UFA, and Brandon Knight is the best RFA- after that it's a steep drop off to vets like Jameer Nelson, Jeremy Lin, and Kurt Hinrich.

So the replacement-level players are there, but there isn't two young, dynamic guards like Isaiah Thomas or Eric Bledsoe on the market like last summer- maybe giving Philly a reason to pause on moving MCW.

 

[gourimoko]

Looks like everyone's concerns were legit. Going to be several years for Wiggins to develop at least.

I don't think anyone said Wiggins was going to come out in his rookie year and dominate. I think the reverse is actually true; I had Parker as ROY, easily, and still do.

 

[LoveStan]

Looks like everyone's concerns were legit. Going to be several years for Wiggins to develop at least.

He'll be an all-star by the end of his rookie contract.

 

[blommen]

The allure of Wiggins was always the potential, and the question was never wether it was him or Love but wether we should've waited to see if we could get both him and Love. I really wish we could've held on to him this first year, not only because he is an incredible talent but also because this would be the absolutely best place for him to considering how raw he is. A kid like that wouldn't get nearly as much out of the starter minutes he sees in Minny compared to what he would get out of running with the second unit sorrounded by amazing talent, veteran presence and brilliant coach here in Cleveland. I call it the Kawhi Leonard effect. the thought of having a young amazing athlete "grow up" under the wings of David Blatt and LeBron James to mentor him and mold him as a basketball player was what made me salivate watching him in Summer League.

Holding on to him the first year and holding off on the trade would've also given us a better assesment of just how good our young players had gotten over the Summer and and in Bennett's case really raised his value on the market. With Bennett however, going to a club where he could get meaningful minutes was probably better for him than staying here so there's no telling how much he would have raised his stock as a second string PF. he looks pretty damn good right now, but it's tough to guage just how much of that is opportunity and how much is improvement.

Alas, the trade went through and we got ourselves some Love, and after watching him play with us it's tough to say that the trade wasn't a success. It's so awesome to finally have a big man that can effect the game in so many ways and it's on display every single second he's on the floor. he is such a unique mix of finesse and strength all wrapped up in a neat little package surrounded by a very high basketball I.Q. seems like a swell dude as well! still though, I can't help but imagine what if, when i think of Wiggins and just how devestating a basketball weapon he could have turned into if we had held on to him.

 

[LoveStan]

Wiggins would be better off running with the second unit, under an unproven coach, more pressure to not make rookie mistakes, just because he gets to be mentored by LeBron? Opposed to playing under Flip who has a history of developing young talent, getting more minutes as a starter and being allowed to make rookie mistakes. Not buying it.

 

[Zen]

I don't think anyone said Wiggins was going to come out in his rookie year and dominate. I think the reverse is actually true; I had Parker as ROY, easily, and still do.

Agreed, which is why I said the concerns that a lot of people expressed ended up panning out.

There was definitely a camp of people that wanted to keep Wiggins and try to move for love in the middle of the season.

 

[blommen]

Wiggins would be better off running with the second unit, under an unproven coach, more pressure to not make rookie mistakes, just because he gets to be mentored by LeBron? Opposed to playing under Flip who has a history of developing young talent, getting more minutes as a starter and being allowed to make rookie mistakes. Not buying it.

Giving him a smaller role and easing him into a bigger one without putting any pressure on him to be a star on a team right out of the gate, would help help a player as Wiggins, yes. getting mentored by LeBron, the best SF of all time, and Blatt who is well known for optimizing young, willing players potential would be preferable in the grand scheme things, as it would allow him to take his time with developing his skills and slowly taking on a larger role in the system. You see him Minny right now, and his deficiencies are on display every night because he has to do more than he is currently capable of, and i definitely don't agree that he is allowed to make more mistakes in there, he's just more liable to make them because he's in a bigger role than he is currently capable of. In Cleveland he would be much more limited to doing what he's great at and he would get a much more defined role to stick to and learn and then slowly you can tweak his role and make him more and more prevalent in the system as his skills develop.

 

[LoveStan]

Giving him a smaller role and easing him into a bigger one without putting any pressure on him to be a star on a team right out of the gate, would help help a player as Wiggins, yes. getting mentored by LeBron, the best SF of all time, and Blatt who is well known for optimizing young, willing players potential would be preferable in the grand scheme things, as it would allow him to take his time with developing his skills and slowly taking on a larger role in the system. You see him Minny right now, and his deficiencies are on display every night because he has to do more than he is currently capable of, and i definitely don't agree that he is allowed to make more mistakes in there, he's just more liable to make them because he's in a bigger role than he is currently capable of. In Cleveland he would be much more limited to doing what he's great at and he would get a much more defined role to stick to and learn and then slowly you can tweak his role and make him more and more prevalent in the system as his skills develop.

Hm, I don't doubt that Wiggins would be well off on either Minny or Cleveland. I guess where me and you differ is that I believe #1 picks, especially one as highly touted as Wiggins having roles. He should have the freedom to expirement with his game IMO, there are moments when Wiggins plays out of control and it is not discouraging to me. However, if i I was a CLE fan or on CLE staff where winning takes priority i'd imagine there'd be less tolerance for Wiggins averaging 7 points while shooting under 40% and 42% on FT. Also, playing with a guy who is more than willing to create for others (Rubio) than a more ball dominant player (LeBron) maximizes Wiggins opportunities for quality touches. I just hope that Wiggins follows the same path that young KG took and becomes the face of the franchise.

 

[blommen]

Hm, I don't doubt that Wiggins would be well off on either Minny or Cleveland. I guess where me and you differ is that I believe #1 picks, especially one as highly touted as Wiggins having roles. He should have the freedom to expirement with his game IMO, there are moments when Wiggins plays out of control and it is not discouraging to me. However, if i I was a CLE fan or on CLE staff where winning takes priority i'd imagine there'd be less tolerance for Wiggins averaging 7 points while shooting under 40% and 42% on FT. Also, playing with a guy who is more than willing to create for others (Rubio) than a more ball dominant player (LeBron) maximizes Wiggins opportunities for quality touches. I just hope that Wiggins follows the same path that young KG took and becomes the face of the franchise.

As 5th option at best we wouldn't be asking for any more from him, and odds are his efficiency would go way up seeing as he would be able to pick and choose his shots much more. What would his role be on our team? he would be a 3 and D guy essentially who you want to leak out on the fast break where he can use his athleticism, and in the offense he would be a weak side option. those are the exact things Wiggins is good at already or at least tailored to be good at. I just don't think he would be facing anywhere near the same scrutiny here as a bench player than he does in Minny, as a starter and would be franchise player, especially considering how hyped he was coming out of college. now there's fucking pressure man. Sure, we are a winning team, winning games mean something, but those games wouldn't be resting on his shoulders, not even close in fact. It's good to "raise" a player in a winning environment and getting him accustomed to that and the responsibility of being part of a contender. there's a whole different atmosphere and sense of responsitbility there, and if the Player is talented and willing to work hard, which Wiggins by all accounts is, you can barely go wrong. on the other hand, throwing an immensely talented but admittedly raw player into a situation where he is in over his head and with less of a veteran presence, there is a much bigger chance of developing bad habbits as a player.

I also question the notion that Wiggins is going to get more looks with Rubio than playing with LeBron, Kyrie and Dion. well, he might get more, but he would probably not be getting better looks. Our system is centered around moving the ball and finding the open man, and when there are more offensive options/threats on the floor it's harder for the defense to properly defend. Wiggins would benefit from playing with three very good passers (4 if you count Andy) as an off the ball option. It would all narrow down to working on playing off the ball and using his athleticism to it's fullest. granted, that is also how he should be utilized in Minny, but seeing as they do not have nearly as much firepower on their team as ours, Wiggins would become a much easier cover, causing him to get tougher shots.

 

[cavsfever]

Who cares what would be better for Wiggins? The question is what would be better for the Cavs. Our window is now, right now.

 

[blommen]

Who cares what would be better for Wiggins? The question is what would be better for the Cavs. Our window is now, right now.

I'm not disputing that at all. trading for Love improved us immensely and as i stated in my original post it incredible to see just how much he impacts our game. the question was never wether or not to get love, but wether or not to wait and see if we could sign him in free agency instead of trading for him. had we been able to do that while still holding on to Wiggins our "window" would possibly be much larger, even though I don't necessarily think it's as narrow as you seem to be implying. It's of course all hypothetical and there's no way of knowing for sure, that Love would be coming here in FA, but as for Wiggins, I really do feel he would've been much better off on our team, considering how raw he is, compared to his situation in Minny.

also, this is the Andrew Wiggins thread, we're supposed to be talking about Andrew Wiggins in here, not specifically the cavs, but seeing as we are a cavs forum and we actually drafted Wiggins, I'd say the discussion does have a place on here, and not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[MD13]

A bit off topic, but out of all the rookies I've been impressed by Exum the most so far. He's got no chance of winning RotY and he's several years away from putting it all together and making a leap to a great player, but the game comes so easily to him. Even his perceived weakness of shooting doesn't seem like it'll be a problem for long, as he's been hitting 3's at a good clip so far.

 

[OldManRemy]

Tonight Wiggins looked very good. In the other games this season, I was a little disappointed in everything except the defense (which I always liked). Wiggins scored without holding the ball a lot and would fit on almost any team since he's not a ball stopper. He plays defense and just "flows" well on the court. Here's a highlight clip of last night.

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51aS6Ul1J60

 

[clevelandrox23]

I miss Wiggy </3