Battle for the AL Central Pt. II -|- Indians vs. Tigers -|- Sept. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th

[Stark]

KC leads Texas 2-0 in the 7th.

 

[Huber.]

Eh, I guess. He killed the game thread by not blowing it, though.

Can't you just enjoy the game and this young team instead of complaining the whole game about how people aren't complaining?

 

[EdMonix11]

Pleasantly surprised by the play of Jose Ramirez

Been saying it for a while, even when nobody agreed with me, Jose Ramirez is an everyday player here.

Scary thing is, his bat has been much better than Kipnis' since his most recent promotion and approaching Kipnis' season totals rather quickly..... as a 20-year old. Don't think we need to talk about the defense.....

 

[Ohio]

Well this was a nice win.

 

[elcheato]

Been saying it for a while, even when nobody agreed with me, Jose Ramirez is an everyday player here.

Scary thing is, his bat has been much better than Kipnis' since his most recent promotion and approaching Kipnis' season totals rather quickly..... as a 20-year old. Don't think we need to talk about the defense.....

Don't be ridiculous, Ramirez will never have Kipnis' power, or eye at the plate.

 

[AZ_]

Been saying it for a while, even when nobody agreed with me, Jose Ramirez is an everyday player here.

Scary thing is, his bat has been much better than Kipnis' since his most recent promotion and approaching Kipnis' season totals rather quickly..... as a 20-year old. Don't think we need to talk about the defense.....

Kipnis' season totals, in his worst year.

And not really...

Kipnis still has 60+ OPS points on him,

 

[The Oi]

They'll lose tonight by at least 5.

 

[macbdog]

Kipnis' season totals, in his worst year.

And not really...

Kipnis still has 60+ OPS points on him,

The bashing of Kipnis to try and promote Ramirez is silly, but the Tribe has to seriously consider moving Kipnis off of 2B. He has only gotten steadily worse there. He has had a down year but you can't write off the bat, obviously, but I think the club could explore their options including trying him at 3B. Kipnis and Lonnie were two of the 3 big reasons the infield defense this year has been so bad. The team has to explore their options with those two.

 

[AZ_]

As a believer that defensive metrics are largely inconsistent and mathematically flawed, I don't think Kipnis or Chisenhall are that porous defensively that you need to move them off the position entirely.

With that said, Ramirez has earned a position in the lineup as well.

Ramirez may be best served as a super utility player in the short term, with the eventual destination of second base his likely landing spot if and when Lindor bumps him off shortstop.

Nothing can happen with moving Chisenhall or Kipnis until Bourn leaves, moving Brantley back to CF and opening up a spot in LF.

I don't see that happening.

 

[elcheato]

Kipnis' season totals, in his worst year.

And not really...

Kipnis still has 60+ OPS points on him,

Being swayed by an incredibly small sample size!

Which is why folks need to pump the breaks on Carrasco. I've always been a fan but we saw a pretty good month stretch from him a few years ago in the rotation too. Don't see how someone can't pencil him in with the other young guys we have just yet

 

[EdMonix11]

Kipnis' season totals, in his worst year.

And not really...

Kipnis still has 60+ OPS points on him,

60+ OPS points on him? Are you talking about this year? To be fair, Kipnis has played an entire season and Ramirez only partial. But if you mention this being Kipnis' worst season, I think it's fair to mention Ramirez's terrible start and how good he's been as a 21-year old to get to where he is with the bat.

Kipnis: .658

Ramirez: .638

Anyways, Kipnis has been on a year and a half slump, and it's not out of the realm of possibility that this is who he really is. I'm not saying write the guy off, but I'm saying he's playing his way off of 2B and a full time position should this slump continue into 2015. For a guy who was considered a "bat only" prospect who the Indians just wanted him to be passable at 2B because he can mash at the plate, he's not doing either well enough at this point.

You chastised me for calling Ramirez a plus defender a few weeks ago, yet, Ramirez's defensive score at Fangraphs is 4.9, which is certainly above average. For comparison's sake, Kipnis' score at 2B is -8.3, Asdrubal is -3.2...... The kicker is, if Ramirez kept this defensive play up for an entire season, he'd be the 4th best defensive SS in the MLB. Not a plus defender though, I guess.

 

[tristan+kyrie=$]

60+ OPS points on him? Are you talking about this year? To be fair, Kipnis has played an entire season and Ramirez only partial. But if you mention this being Kipnis' worst season, I think it's fair to mention Ramirez's terrible start and how good he's been as a 21-year old to get to where he is with the bat.

Kipnis: .658

Ramirez: .638

Anyways, Kipnis has been on a year and a half slump, and it's not out of the realm of possibility that this is who he really is. I'm not saying write the guy off, but I'm saying he's playing his way off of 2B and a full time position should this slump continue into 2015. For a guy who was considered a "bat only" prospect who the Indians just wanted him to be passable at 2B because he can mash at the plate, he's not doing either well enough at this point.

You chastised me for calling Ramirez a plus defender a few weeks ago, yet, Ramirez's defensive score at Fangraphs is 4.9, which is certainly above average. For comparison's sake, Kipnis' score at 2B is -8.3, Asdrubal is -3.2...... The kicker is, if Ramirez kept this defensive play up for an entire season, he'd be the 4th best defensive SS in the MLB. Not a plus defender though, I guess.

woah that was a good argument

 

[AZ_]

60+ OPS points on him? Are you talking about this year? To be fair, Kipnis has played an entire season and Ramirez only partial. But if you mention this being Kipnis' worst season, I think it's fair to mention Ramirez's terrible start and how good he's been as a 21-year old to get to where he is with the bat.

Kipnis: .658

Ramirez: .638

Anyways, Kipnis has been on a year and a half slump, and it's not out of the realm of possibility that this is who he really is. I'm not saying write the guy off, but I'm saying he's playing his way off of 2B and a full time position should this slump continue into 2015. For a guy who was considered a "bat only" prospect who the Indians just wanted him to be passable at 2B because he can mash at the plate, he's not doing either well enough at this point.

You chastised me for calling Ramirez a plus defender a few weeks ago, yet, Ramirez's defensive score at Fangraphs is 4.9, which is certainly above average. For comparison's sake, Kipnis' score at 2B is -8.3, Asdrubal is -3.2...... The kicker is, if Ramirez kept this defensive play up for an entire season, he'd be the 4th best defensive SS in the MLB. Not a plus defender though, I guess.

It's significantly closer now, after jumping 38 points in a day.

Should give you a pretty good indication of the sample size we're talking about here.

I don't think you'll find anyone arguing that Kipnis isn't having what is by far his worst season, a clear outlier marred by an oblique injury that has clearly affected his power.

With that said, only then can Ramirez manage to come remotely close to his production offensively and even then it's close because Ramirez has been pretty hot for the last month or so.

I'm not going to let an injury plagued season dictate the future path for him, certainly not at the expense of a guy who can barely match that production while on a hot streak.

And that isn't to denigrate Ramirez, he's an incredibly useful player and I have high hopes for him for the future as a utility guy who is going to play the role Mike Aviles does now. But Kipnis is by far the more talented player.

 

[Stark]

Boobie, you think Ramirez will still be around as a utility guy? If Lindor proves to be all that, and we have Chisenhall or Urshela at third and Kipnis at second for the foreseeable future, shouldn't we maybe explore trading J-Ram?

 

[shoes22]

Boobie, you think Ramirez will still be around as a utility guy? If Lindor proves to be all that, and we have Chisenhall or Urshela at third and Kipnis at second for the foreseeable future, shouldn't we maybe explore trading J-Ram?

We're not in the business of trading young talent like that unless we're getting a power bat or a quality vet arm. And we're certainly not getting that for Ramirez. It's best we keep him in some capacity, and move one of Kipnis or Chiz to the outfield in the next year or two. I doubt finding playing time for Ramirez will be an issue.