Brown is definitely a rookie coach

[West Remy]

Not if we hit our free throws.

While that's true, the picture I see is if the team could have keyed in on the Lakers' second and third scorers a little better, we could have played sloppy like we did (turnovers, missed foul shots) and still won the game

 

[PIP]

If #23 doesn't turn the ball over while the score is at (90-89, Cavs up) we win..

This is the play where #23 jumped in the air to pass outta the double team.. Yet, #8 tips it, #7 picks it up and drives to the hole, only to kick it out to # 3, who ironically, hits a 3...(92-90 Lakers up)

Momentum switched over to that team... We lose the game...

It's little plays like those that costly... Regardless of his greatness, he is not a clutch player, yet... I told LJ4MVP that already... He is not a clutch player...

I would have prefered for the ball to have been Larry's hands down the stretch... But, he's hurt... :thumbdown

 

[Karma]

I think pointing the finger at Brown is a little out of line. He gets bagged for playing LeBron too much, and he sits him and we go "we need James out there". He plays Luke like we have asked for no comment. He plays Jones less, and even gives our other young swingman a run. Nobody guarded Odom well. James, Gooden and Marshall. He was a ba matchup for us.

I dont think it was Brown's lack of offensive strategy that cost us this. Players looking into the mirror a little and the no.8 for the Lakers will find some answers.

 

[PIP]

He plays Luke like we have asked for

'We'

Let me go back and read that again...OH THE IRONY :chuckles:

 

[West Remy]

It's little plays like those that costly... Regardless of his greatness, he is not a clutch player, yet... I told LJ4MVP that already... He is not a clutch player...

I've always had a shakey handle of the sports cliche of being "clutch."

Tracy McGrady, as highly skilled a player as they come, once had an "anti-clutch" label and after knocking down a series of game-winning shots, I wonder what happened? Did he suddenly wake up and become "clutch?" Those same critics then said, "Now Tracy is clutch." When in my mind, he was the same old Tracy I've watched closely and religiously for years and couldn't see any difference. Is clutchness more an exaggeration for what we describe as finishing games strong through solid conditioning (being in great shape and able to perform despite heavy minutes) and mental toughness (lack of fear, calmness, no nerves)? Since the Shaq trade, I've even seen Lakers fans call Kobe less clutch. As if he woke up and was suddenly less of a man. Even with guys like Kobe, being clutch often comes down to how much juice a player has at the end of games. When Kobe had a streak of 3 or 4 games in a row where he failed to deliver in the clutch, rather than saying Kobe was choking and failing to be clutch, I saw him in a situation where pressure and/or heavy minutes simply had a natural impact on his ability to finish. Unless a player has a big rest or tanks certain parts of the game, he's going to be tired in the end and missing shots late could be as much as case of rubbery legs or shakey focus, than this sports cliche of being "clutch." Outside of guys who simply get afraid at the end like Peja or just flat out lack the skills to get it done (a player isn't a bona fide #1 option and can't score/pass when the entire defense knows he's going to get the ball and tries their best to stop him) "clutchness" is a vague concept.

 

[PIP]

Imo, it's confidence...And confidence only... Self assured

Example. LeBron will say he is confident (and he is too a point) But I can almost guarantee somewhere in the back of his mind he was thinking at the free throw line yesterday about his previous misses... It might not have been on the frontlines in terms of his thinking.. But it's mental (Tim Duncan like)

First one is the hardest one to make.... Second one is mental...

You can almost see the nervousness on his face... The chewing the nails (albeit almost a ritual, is a habit by nature, same with the tapping of the foot in that huddle)

It takes some players longer then others... Reggie Miller took a couple years to be mentally prepared to hit those shots, and to have the confidence in his ability... Same with Chauncey Billups.. Carmelo is starting to become that type of player as well....

Ben Gordon came into the league last year ready to hit the big shots, and he did...

LeBron has been hit or miss with those... He has hit a couple game tying shots... Last year against the Pacers (first game of the 04-05 season) and he also hit one in Chicago last year to tie it up..But has yet to hit game winners.

IMO, it doesn't matter the sport, or the talent... It's all mental and confidence regarding the athlete , and is not conditioning....

For example, baseball is a sport where there is not much up and down moving, and is a slower pace..

Jeter is half as talented as A-Rod, but I would prefer to have Jeter at the plate with the game on the line, then the superior player in A-Rod. Jeter is clutch, and A-Rod is not...

And I base that on living in the moment and making it your moment...Mentally focusing, and having the confidence in yourself to produce at the pinnacle moments... That's clutch...

 

[Pioneer10]

He only played Luke after sitting him after he a drive and a a great pass for Sasha who promptly responded with 2 straight TO's. We didn't see Luke for another 2 quarters

I praised Brown and I think it is fair to point that he got outcoached this game.

 

[Pioneer10]

He only played Luke after sitting him after he a drive and a a great pass for Sasha who promptly responded with 2 straight TO's. We didn't see Luke for another 2 quarters

I praised Brown and I think it is fair to point that he got outcoached this game.

It was also not only Marshall on Odom that hurt us but the incidence to continue to start D. Jones and then bring him back in the third hurt us. Smush Freakin Parker basically scored only when D. Jones was on him.

 

[KI4MVP]

great way to judge clutchness LePip - one play of one game. Never-mind all of the huge 4th quarters he's had this year to win games.

 

[PIP]

great way to judge clutchness LePip - one play of one game. Never-mind all of the huge 4th quarters he's had this year to win games.

How else do you define clutch ?

Okay, I will make you feel better.... The shot LeBron hit with 5 mintues to go in the 2nd quarter was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Clutch ...

That dunk right before the half was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Clutch

That missed free throw was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO unClutch

That missed shot at the buzzer was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO unClutch

Game was hanging in the balance... Did he produce ? did he get us the "W" ? BOTTOM LINE BUSINESS, MY FIREND...He didn't produce when we needed it the most... He, along with the others got us to a point to win the game..The Cavaliers handed him the keys to the car, and he took it off the bridge...They didn't hand it too Z, they didn't hand it Donyell, they handed it to Jordan2K and he failed.... Nothing wrong with that, but it's a FACT.

Did 'our Jordan' hit the game winner to give us the W when he had the chance ? You only get a couple chances throughout a year to do this...

His two turnovers down the stretch didn't help either.... Including the one I mentioned above... The turnover while we leading 90-89 really killed us... It turned into a 3 for them... Thus, 92-90 Gold Jerseys, Buddy.

Does that missed shot mean LeBron cannot and will not hit game winners ? NO, it just means he has yet to do so... So he was not clutch...

During the critical minutes of that game, Kobe hits 3 Clutch shots with LeBron in his face... LeBron misses 1 with Kobe in his... NUFF SAID.

Same thing happened last year in LA (He missed the game winner) and it happened with Prince in his face last year in Detroit... I SEE A PATTERN... :chuckles:

 

[KI4MVP]

you only see a pattern when you leave out most of the data

Rookie year vs Nets - LeBron hits the game winner with 16 seconds left

Last year
opening night vs Pacers - LeBron hits a 3 with Artest in his face to force OT, hits a foul shot to force 2nd OT
vs Suns - rallies the cavs from 19 down with a 17 point 4th quarter and the game tying assist.
vs boston - makes game tying shot
vs charlotte - makes game tying assist
at chicago - hits game tying 3 as time expires

makes 1 game winning shot, 3 game tying shots, 1 game tying foul shot, 2 game tying assists
misses 2 game winning shots, 1 game trying shot, 2 game tying foul shots
He's been in position to make a game winning or game tying play 12 times, he came through 7 of the 12 times. You only want to count the misses to show a pattern.

 

[West Remy]

Ben Gordon came into the league last year ready to hit the big shots, and he did....

I see your point about confidence but Ben Gordon was a one-trick pony who was used solely as an offensive weapon, almost never played heavy minutes (6th man off the bench type minutes) and was always fresh as a daisy to go out and take shots. If we sat James down and cut back his minutes like the Bulls did for Ben, James would go nuts in 4th quarters as well.

 

[fsqp13]

its his first of many many more tries to become clutch and actually be one. don't blame him, even mj had his share of 'unclutchness'

 

[PIP]

I mentioned two of those in one of my previous post Lj4MvP...(I beat you to it :chuckles: )

Bottom line, I didn't create the word clutch, I didn't right the definition for the word... I can't tell you if the word has double meanings, or if there are different levels of clutch...

All I know, everytime the clock was running down, and LeBron took the game winner, we've lost at the buzzer...

If the game was on the line, and I had to choose a player on our team too take the shot, I would choose ---> LeBron.... He is just that good...

Hell, Maurice Williams has two game winners at the buzzer this year... That says it all when comparing talents...

Some players just have that calmness and coolness to take those shots (AND MAKE THOSE SHOTS) The ice water running thru the veins....

Being Clutch for LeBron is a non issue IMO.... The real is issue is him admiting he does not have the killer instinct, and them spitting that out on National TV.... Not only is that a trait of being Clutch... It's a trait for greatness...

I sure hope we don't have a David Robinson in a SF's body, because he has so much more talent....

I could not believe he would come out and admit he doesn't have it like Kobe...

 

[Coyote]

Like the "fan support" thread, this one's becoming a yawn. Sometimes, a game comes down to the final shot because one team overachieves on the hype of itself and the other team's poor FT shooting and the other, visiting team, keeps itself in the game by containing a player who had been scoring 40+ and went 'down' with a 'wrist injury,' and finally going inside to their center. Said 'injured' player scores, miraculously, 3 straight jumpers in the final 1:30 because he is older and has been on a team that won 3 championships. Then the opposing, visiting team's player - who is 21 and has not even been to the playoffs - has a chance to ice the game and misses a jumper even though he shot 50% from the field during the game and single-handedly brought his team into the game in the 3rd quarter. The ESPN wanks are either vindicated or horribly embarassed and commit suicide.

Months, maybe years, from now, said 'visiting team's All-Star player' will hit a game-winning jumper in the playoffs and everyone will call him clutch. No one will remember this thread, which started as an interesting discussion of Mike Brown's pros and cons, because - hey! - he's a rookie head coach.