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Cavaliers Offseason Thread
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Otsego Mar
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All4One1ForAll
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I'm really curious why so many people on this board want Rudy Gay. He makes zero sense for this team.
While he can score well, he's very ball dominant (27% USG Rate), he's poor defensively (-2.46 DRPM, -0.7 DBPM, 110 DRTG, Contributed to the 28th worst defense in the league), he's a mediocre 3 point shooter (35.9% from three on only 3.2 attempts per game, 35.4 mpg), and he's not much of a playmaker either (1.37 AST/TO Ratio, 6th worst among qualified players, and 3.7 apg, which is below average considering his minutes and how much he dominates the ball).
Furthermore, he's most likely going to command a lot of money and since we already have LeBron at SF and Love and Tristan (assuming we retain them) at PF, we would essentially only be able to give him around 15 minutes per game of playing time, which wouldn't be worth what we'd have to pay him.
While he can score well, he's very ball dominant (27% USG Rate), he's poor defensively (-2.46 DRPM, -0.7 DBPM, 110 DRTG, Contributed to the 28th worst defense in the league), he's a mediocre 3 point shooter (35.9% from three on only 3.2 attempts per game, 35.4 mpg), and he's not much of a playmaker either (1.37 AST/TO Ratio, 6th worst among qualified players, and 3.7 apg, which is below average considering his minutes and how much he dominates the ball).
Furthermore, he's most likely going to command a lot of money and since we already have LeBron at SF and Love and Tristan (assuming we retain them) at PF, we would essentially only be able to give him around 15 minutes per game of playing time, which wouldn't be worth what we'd have to pay him.
Jscc
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No kidding. There is too much what have you done for me lately going on in this thread from people suggesting we are better with 33 year old Wade. We are not.
Wade can't hit threes. 33 year old Wade can't consistently guard the Klay Thompson's, James Harden's, Jimmy Butler's of the NBA. Shumpert can and has. We are significantly better with a healthy Shumpert.
Healthy Shumpert >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 33 year old Dwyane Wade.
Bob_The_Cat
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Not that I really disagree with this, but when's the last time Sumpert's been healthy? He's missed 20 or more games 3 of the 4 years he's been in the league. He was banged up all playoffs and seemed to tweak something new every other game.
Jscc
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Shump has 8-10 years of potential to have healthy seasons before he reaches Wade's age. And when Shump was healthy with us he was outstanding.
At this point, Wade is predictably going to miss games every season for the remainder of his career.
Cassity14
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And Dwyane Wade.....?
Paul
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SG/SF looks like it's going to be a dilemma for the Cavs this season. We can bring back JR, maybe at kind of an ugly price and just hope that this time he plays well. We can try and get someone or maybe 2 someones for the Haywood contract. Maybe a few guys emerge for vet minimums and mle.
I am not very worried about PG. We have Kyrie and probably Delly and LeBron there, and I think the league is so loaded with PGs that we can get a solid guy on top of that who will play for 2 or 3 mil. (Mo Williams or Beno Udrih might work)
I think where we are going to run into trouble is finding a guy we can afford who can play SG and or SF and shoot 3 pointers well. JR is this guy but it seems like his unpredictability forces Griffin to find guys who can be ready to step in if he chokes or gets suspended. James Jones, while he seems to be an awesome dude, I think needs to be less relied upon this year. It's a huge dropoff when he comes in.
We could also grab some guys who are maybe not great from 3 but have proven they can score in other ways. Rodney Stuckey might fit that mold as weould D Wade if we can somehow swing that.
If I'm Griffin I'm thinking that it's quite possible either Kyrie or Love could get hurt in the playfoff run next year so we need some sort of backup offensive weapon we can insert to keep the team from becoming to easy to defend.
I am not very worried about PG. We have Kyrie and probably Delly and LeBron there, and I think the league is so loaded with PGs that we can get a solid guy on top of that who will play for 2 or 3 mil. (Mo Williams or Beno Udrih might work)
I think where we are going to run into trouble is finding a guy we can afford who can play SG and or SF and shoot 3 pointers well. JR is this guy but it seems like his unpredictability forces Griffin to find guys who can be ready to step in if he chokes or gets suspended. James Jones, while he seems to be an awesome dude, I think needs to be less relied upon this year. It's a huge dropoff when he comes in.
We could also grab some guys who are maybe not great from 3 but have proven they can score in other ways. Rodney Stuckey might fit that mold as weould D Wade if we can somehow swing that.
If I'm Griffin I'm thinking that it's quite possible either Kyrie or Love could get hurt in the playfoff run next year so we need some sort of backup offensive weapon we can insert to keep the team from becoming to easy to defend.
Bob_The_Cat
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You're really making a lot of assumptions in this post. To assume that any player will be in the league 8-10 years from now (and remain healthy to boot) is a bit absurd, let alone when talking about a guy that has missed significant time in 3 of his first 4 years. In the grand scheme of things, few NBA careers actually last that long.
You're also assuming that Wade would miss games even with a lighter workload in terms of minutes and responsibility. In Miami, he's the focal point of the offense. In Cleveland, he's at best the third option with Kyrie and LeBron on the floor, and possibly the fourth option with Love out there as well.
We also can't look at this 8-10 years down the road. We're in win NOW mode. If the FO thinks Wade gives us the best chance to win next season, they'll try to make it happen.
Not to mention, Shump was a bit of a letdown in the Finals to say the least. Obviously Wade isn't the player he was 3 years ago, but the guy most certainly won't shrink when it comes playoff time. I really don't think there's anyway it happens, but I'd rather roll the dice on Wade than Shump to be honest. I would see the Cavs really controlling Wade's minutes to make sure he's healthy and ready come playoff time.
I'd take Rudy in a heartbeat. I'm not all that concerned with advanced stats for a guy playing on a terrible, dysfunctional team. I'm also not concerned about his 3 point shooting. If he could do it all, he wouldn't be available. Besides, we have too many guys already who are essentially zero offensive threat when they aren't open at the 3 point line. We need someone off the bench who has more diversity in their offensive game.
And after seeing Kyrie, Love, Shump and Andy get injured on an almost yearly basis, I immediately throw out the lack of minutes argument.
Give me a talented player who can settle into a low pressure role and not be counted on to be a primary scorer. To me, Rudy is a guy who throughout his career has been asked to be a first or second option and he's not good enough to do that consistently. Ask him to be a 4th or 5th option on a winning team and I think you will be pleased with the results.
We don't have the ammunition to land a slam dunk trade. You are going to have to take on somebody with warts. We could do much , much worse than Rudy if he is actually attainable.
Bob_The_Cat
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Riddle me this... how does anyone defend this lineup?
Kyrie
Wade
LeBron
Love
Moz/TT
To me, people are looking at this wrong. If we somehow could pull off getting Wade, he does several things. He helps lessen LeBron's load offensively, which means LeBron can become more of the defensive leader we all anticipated we he came back. Due to Wade and LeBron's past, I would actually think those two would be the primary ball handlers while Kyrie and Love help stretch the court. Kyrie off the ball is insanely hard to defend, and with Wade in tow, it'd be even more difficult.
Truthfully, I think we'd see Wade as a primary ball handler for extended periods. If Wade has the ball in his hands, that means Love, Kyrie, and LeBron are all roaming the court with Wade drawing defenders.
No one could matchup with that team defensively. How could the Bulls guard that? Rose on Kyrie. Butler on LeBron. Mirotic or Dunleavy on Wade? Ha. Goodnight. I guess they could try to use Gibson on Wade, but that likely wouldn't work all too well. Then, if they put Butler on Wade, LeBron just feasts on whoever is guarding him.
Kyrie
Wade
LeBron
Love
Moz/TT
To me, people are looking at this wrong. If we somehow could pull off getting Wade, he does several things. He helps lessen LeBron's load offensively, which means LeBron can become more of the defensive leader we all anticipated we he came back. Due to Wade and LeBron's past, I would actually think those two would be the primary ball handlers while Kyrie and Love help stretch the court. Kyrie off the ball is insanely hard to defend, and with Wade in tow, it'd be even more difficult.
Truthfully, I think we'd see Wade as a primary ball handler for extended periods. If Wade has the ball in his hands, that means Love, Kyrie, and LeBron are all roaming the court with Wade drawing defenders.
No one could matchup with that team defensively. How could the Bulls guard that? Rose on Kyrie. Butler on LeBron. Mirotic or Dunleavy on Wade? Ha. Goodnight. I guess they could try to use Gibson on Wade, but that likely wouldn't work all too well. Then, if they put Butler on Wade, LeBron just feasts on whoever is guarding him.
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Jscc
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We don't need him for offense at all. So there's no point in discussing Wade's offensive role.
He was playing with shoulder and groin strains.. and still shut Klay Thompson down. I don't know how that's a disappointment.
LeBron thought differently.
His contract demands will be ridiculous. The production of both Shumpert AND Smith would equal Wade's and both could likely be re-signed for the amount it would take to pay Wade. There's nothing good about acquiring Wade.
Biw
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Rainman
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So you take Kyrie's best attribute away from him by Making him a spot up shooter? Talk about idiotic, Kyrie needs the ball. Wade can start but either James or Lebron must come off the floor early in the qtr. Keeping all three in the game at the same time would be a mistake unless it's at the end of the game. Wade has a great mid range game that is almost impossible to stop. The problem is none of the three are comfortable playing off the ball.
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