Chief Wahoo Discussion

[kosis]

theres like 35 MLB teams with a C as their logo. One of which plays in the same state. It's just not original and barely identifying at all.

If you're outside of Cleveland wearing the block C a LOT of people are going to think you're a cubs fan

On a personal preference level I think any logo with just a letter is boring and a waste


I want them to bring back brownie the elf!!

Gotta disagree. I can't imagine any baseball fan confusing the block C with the Cubs C. Sure, same letter, but the typeface is clearly distinct. The color scheme works so well, too. The only C that I'd confuse with the Cubs is the Cap'n Crunch C.

 

[Jordan]

This post comes from someone who has rocked a Chief Wahoo hat nearly every wearable day since the end of the NBA season...

But I'd totally be fine with the team changing the logo, name, etc. To me, we're at the point where it offends a large enough group of people that it should be changed. Additionally, the history of the name and logo are rooted in racism. I do like @BimboColesHair idea of doing what the Blackhawks did; however, I'd need to see that the logo change would make a large portion of the Native American population feel less resentful towards the name.

With that said, I would be pissed if the block C becomes the logo. It's not creative whatsoever, and for those not living in Cleveland, it's easily confused with both the Cubs' and Reds' logos. I just want something distinct. The reason myself and others wear the Chief Wahoo logo is not because we're racists, and I don't think it's nostalgia either, but because that logo is distinct. It represents something. If you create a distinct logo with whatever new name is chosen I really don't think people would be up in arms.

But this is just the opinion of a guy who wears a racist baseball hat, so take it for what it's worth.

 

[Derek]

theres like 35 MLB teams with a C as their logo. One of which plays in the same state. It's just not original and barely identifying at all.

If you're outside of Cleveland wearing the block C a LOT of people are going to think you're a cubs fan

On a personal preference level I think any logo with just a letter is boring and a waste


I want them to bring back brownie the elf!!

I don't see how you could confuse the block C with any of the other C's, especially not the Cubs. Almost every team has a letter for a logo, and I think it's pretty easy to distinguish between them.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Gotta disagree. I can't imagine any baseball fan confusing the block C with the Cubs C. Sure, same letter, but the typeface is clearly distinct. The color scheme works so well, too. The only C that I'd confuse with the Cubs is the Cap'n Crunch C.

I don't see how you could confuse the block C with any of the other C's, especially not the Cubs. Almost every team has a letter for a logo, and I think it's pretty easy to distinguish between them.

Ok, guys, you're (at least d wreck, not to insult you kosis I just haven't seen you post much about baseball) likely in the top 1% of knowledgable baseball fans in this entire country.

A casual fan (of which the majority of baseball fans are) isn't going to know every team's primary and secondary logos. I promise you as someone who spends a ton of time outside of Cleveland people will assume it is the Cubs.

 

[Soda]

Id be okay with the Cleveland Tribe

I personally like the Cleveland Natives. Maybe you can still pull-off a feather logo without being offensive to any type of skin/facial feature.

I read the Blackhawks argument, but isn't that also a caricature of a Native American? I mean, the skin-color is literally exactly what Chief Wahoo's was before they made the logo less representative of a human. The caricature also has a pronounced brow ridge, which is acknowledged as a nod to being early ancestors of neanderthals...

Whatever the matter, I would like to see the Indians be a first-mover on this. The only reason nobody is giving credit to the team for moving on this early is because the Chief still exists in some form.

On a side note, I think the argument that nobody wants to buy Chief Wahoo gear is completely untrue. There's a reason the team hasn't let it go yet; Chief Wahoo is their most recognizable logo and it sells like hotcakes. Perhaps in the coming years it'll significantly decline, but it hasn't. If you walk around Cleveland, a ton of people have Chief gear on.

How can I write, so convincingly, that The Chief is still very much a part of the Tribe’s business? Follow the money, my dear reader.
Guess what ball cap just happens to be the Tribe’s No. 1 seller? If you said the home Chief Wahoo logo cap, you’d be right.
So while ownership tries to downplay the team’s use of the logo, Chief Wahoo is still very, very popular among Tribe fans, and undoubtedly, ownership knows it.

Here’s the breakdown of which caps sell the best, via Cleveland.com’s Terry Pluto.

1. Home cap with Chief Wahoo
2. Road cap with Block C red
3. Washed Chief Wahoo cap
4. Washed Block C cap

The Block C cap is a good look (the blue ones, at least), but it’s a fantasy to think the Dolans would do away with the revenue generator that accounts for two of their top three best-selling caps.

http://factoryofsadness.co/2016/04/...fine-profitable-line-with-chief-wahoo-stance/

 

[Randolphkeys]

I personally like the Cleveland Natives. Maybe you can still pull-off a feather logo without being offensive to any type of skin/facial feature.

I read the Blackhawks argument, but isn't that also a caricature of a Native American? I mean, the skin-color is literally exactly what Chief Wahoo's was before they made the logo less representative of a human. The caricature also has a pronounced brow ridge, which is acknowledged as a nod to being early ancestors of neanderthals...

Whatever the matter, I would like to see the Indians be a first-mover on this. The only reason nobody is giving credit to the team for moving on this early is because the Chief still exists in some form.

On a side note, I think the argument that nobody wants to buy Chief Wahoo gear is completely untrue. There's a reason the team hasn't let it go yet; Chief Wahoo is their most recognizable logo and it sells like hotcakes. Perhaps in the coming years it'll significantly decline, but it hasn't. If you walk around Cleveland, a ton of people have Chief gear on.



http://factoryofsadness.co/2016/04/01/cleveland-indians-have-walked-a-fine-profitable-line-with-chief-wahoo-stance/

I agree with the "Profitable" line of argument as a legitimate defense locally for the Indians franchise, but not a lasting logical defense. It's a band aid while they decide what they want to do going forward.

Let's look at the reality of why the Chief is profitable locally: The Cleveland fanbase is predominantly older than 50 years old, predominantly white suburbanites.

If I were playing God to design a region resistant to change in Sim City, I'd be sure to make it predominantly old and white.

That doesn't make the logo defensible.

 

[Chris]

This post comes from someone who has rocked a Chief Wahoo hat nearly every wearable day since the end of the NBA season...

But I'd totally be fine with the team changing the logo, name, etc. To me, we're at the point where it offends a large enough group of people that it should be changed. Additionally, the history of the name and logo are rooted in racism. I do like @BimboColesHair idea of doing what the Blackhawks did; however, I'd need to see that the logo change would make a large portion of the Native American population feel less resentful towards the name.

With that said, I would be pissed if the block C becomes the logo. It's not creative whatsoever, and for those not living in Cleveland, it's easily confused with both the Cubs' and Reds' logos. I just want something distinct. The reason myself and others wear the Chief Wahoo logo is not because we're racists, and I don't think it's nostalgia either, but because that logo is distinct. It represents something. If you create a distinct logo with whatever new name is chosen I really don't think people would be up in arms.

But this is just the opinion of a guy who wears a racist baseball hat, so take it for what it's worth.

This is literally exactly how I feel. Good post.

I have some Chief gear...a hat or two, some shirts, and I'm not getting rid of them. Sorry but not really. That said, I'm totally open to/fine with changing the logo and even the TEAM NAME as long as it's to something that does the franchise justice. I grew up with the Indians. To see their logo, which is one of the most recognizable in sports (my biased opinion) changed to a block C shared by plenty of other teams would frankly be hugely disappointing to me.

I'd like to think we can get creative and find something respectful, that keeps the Native American theme of the baseball team but in a manner that honors them rather than offending them.

I don't hate the block C, I just don't want it as the primary logo. We already have one pro team in Cleveland with generic as fuck marketing, uniforms, and logo. Please don't make it two.

 

[NtG]

I am not fine with changing the logo, but wouldn't mind changing the name. "Indians" is really just a dumb name. Change the team name to "Tribe", keep Wahoo.

 

[bornjoke]

Just threw this together. Cleveland Tribe. Most people already call them the tribe anyway.

Fact is though I dont see a change happening. Would be a different story if we had decent attendance. But since we dont and Chief Wahoo sells well, nothing is going to change. Money has to come from some place.

It's evident they are trying to sell it too. 6 out of 6 postseason games and we have worn Wahoo hats.

 

[Soda]

I agree with the "Profitable" line of argument as a legitimate defense locally for the Indians franchise, but not a lasting logical defense. It's a band aid while they decide what they want to do going forward.

Let's look at the reality of why the Chief is profitable locally: The Cleveland fanbase is predominantly older than 50 years old, predominantly white suburbanites.

If I were playing God to design a region resistant to change in Sim City, I'd be sure to make it predominantly old and white.

That doesn't make the logo defensible.

What about what I said defended it? I'm saying that the logo not being profitable is illogical to bring up as a reason why they may decide to change it.

I do agree that part of the reason it still is a logo is because the team hasn't found another viable alternative. If they did, they'd have made a legitimate switch by now.

 

[Randolphkeys]

What about what I said defended it? I'm saying that the logo not being profitable is illogical to bring up as a reason why they may decide to change it.

I do agree that part of the reason it still is a logo is because the team hasn't found another viable alternative. If they did, they'd have made a legitimate switch by now.

I'm not arguing against your stance, I'm arguing why the organization's profit stance has a short shelf life. You just happened to be the one to bring it up.

 

[David.]

Very pretty Indian girl on tinder just asked what I'm up to today.

I could not type that im watching the Indians.

 

[spydy13]

You cheer for a football team that has a color for a mascot. You'll be fine.

This is the weird thing for me. In a town where the most popular team by far has no logo (other than an elf and a dog that have been tacked onto the team's identity over time), there are tons of people that will die on the hill of the Indian's seriously outdated logo and name. Shit, for the longest time (and arguably one of the most popular periods for the team), the Cavs had logos that had nothing to do with "cavaliers."

Why are people so attached to Chief Wahoo? When I think about any of these teams I think about the players or even the colors, not the logos.

 

[Ohio]

Why are people so attached to Chief Wahoo?

Because it is a very unique logo and this town fell in love with the Indians in the 90s with Chief at the forefront.

It is pretty cool to have a unique, prominent logo. It is just very unfortunate that Chief happens to be a racial image.

 

[shoes22]

Because it is a very unique logo and this town fell in love with the Indians in the 90s with Chief at the forefront.

It is pretty cool to have a unique, prominent logo. It is just very unfortunate that Chief happens to be a racial image.

Thank you.

If there was any way to strip the Chief of any racial context and make it its own entity and character, I would be all for that. I'm more attached to the art design than anything else, even the distinctive shape it makes when it's printed on the hats...I like little details like that that separate us from other teams. There has to be some kind of publicly accepted solution that's not generic blandness.