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Cleveland Browns Quarterback Position

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SuperSurge said:
Im as nervous about releasing any young player as anyone due to them potentially tearing it up on another team.

But I have zero fear of that happening in Manziels case.

He will have another off field incident. You can't count on him and you certainly can't hitch your franchise too him.

Many people saw this before the draft. Hell, even the Browns own expensive, thorough report said that he wasn't the best ranked prospect.

He needs to go, along with Gilbert. Until they are gone, the Browns front office has zero credibility in my eyes, not that they were working with much credibility to begin with.

I do find myself feeling kind of sorry for Pettine. We asked a first time head coach to come in here and develop a culture. As with players, coaches need to develop as well. I've seen small growth in him and a decent sense of leadership, but of course we will fire him before his 3rd season all the while forcing players on him such as Manziel that you know he doesn't want.

It starts at the very top, and this is the greasiest of grease fires right now.

/rant
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I don't see how you could feel bad for him when he:

1) preaches accountability, and has yet to call out his 'boy' for torpedoing our 62 million dollar defense, with 4 ex pro bowl or all-pro players (Haden, Gipson, Whitner, Dansby (2013)) into the 30's overall in the league.

2) preaches preparation, yet seems befuddled in every clock management and crunch-time situation.

If Pettine made great, intelligent, clock management and game day strategic decisions then fine, but he just looks so in over his head on the sidelines every Sunday that I really don't see how you could think that he's the guy you want managing time outs and overseeing a team when our games really matter.

I have a much bigger issue with his game-day strategic performance and the way he's handled O'Neill than anything with Manziel/Gilbert.
 
There are established coaches that still have trouble with clock management. Bill Belicheck once said that was te toughest part of coaching for him to "get." That can be improved with time and opportunity.

I think Pettine has done about as well as any first time coach would given the toxicity, impatience, and incompetence above him.

He very well may be a terrible coach. I just don't think he was given a great chance to succeed.
 
SuperSurge said:
I do find myself feeling kind of sorry for Pettine. We asked a first time head coach to come in here and develop a culture. As with players, coaches need to develop as well. I've seen small growth in him and a decent sense of leadership, but of course we will fire him before his 3rd season all the while forcing players on him such as Manziel that you know he doesn't want.
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I share your sentiment to a degree..

My support for Pett has slowly waned throughout this season. I think he's honestly and bravely trying to move the organizational culture from the ground up; however, he's kind-of shot himself in the foot with some misplaced stubbornness. It's right to be stubborn about a guy like Manziel, but then why is Gilbert dressing? Why can't he let go of Jim O'Neil? I know it's probably difficult to cast a guy out into the wild who is your guy, but the defense is paramount here. Not his friendship. Plus, his game-day management of the clock and adjustments is lacking from my perspective. All this said, I have more faith in him getting better at his job than I do in Farmer, Haslam or Scheiner adjusting from their mistakes. Pettine seems to be the only guy in the building that keeps football as the "main thing" through the ups and downs of the year.
 
SuperSurge said:
There are established coaches that still have trouble with clock management. Bill Belicheck once said that was te toughest part of coaching for him to "get." That can be improved with time and opportunity.

I think Pettine has done about as well as any first time coach would given the toxicity, impatience, and incompetence above him.

He very well may be a terrible coach. I just don't think he was given a great chance to succeed.
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I give Pettine huge props for his handling of this situation. And I think he has been handcuffed a lot in this situation.

But the fact of the matter is we have the absolute worst defense in the NFL. 7 of 11 games this year we have given up 30+ points. This could be the worst team in franchise history. And for once the defensive problems aren't from the offensive ineptitude. We actually have 1 less second time of possession per game than our opponents. As even as you could ask for. I know last week we had more penalty yards than rushing yards. I think that is still true.

With how much is invested in the defense, and the fact that almost everybody on the defense has regressed (and expressed concern about how overly complicated the scheme is) I think you have to can Pettine.
 
I don't blame Pettine for not canning O'Neil in the middle of the season, or even before the season But if he keeps him in the off season after two years of crappy defenses, that's a different story.
 
At the end of the day, Farmer and Pettine are both likely to be polishing their resumes for the 2016 season. What HC or GM is taking this job with Manziel on the roster? No one coming in is going to want to have their career tied to such a volatile piece.

The next regime to take over will likely torch everything Farmer has touched, he has done such a poor job of building a roster it's hard to swallow. Our personnel was better under Chud than it is with Pettine right now, and we were one of the youngest teams in the NFL. There is no excuse for that.
 
bob2the2nd said:
what about him is unknown?
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A lot could be unknown for the owner. For me? I've seen enough, but it's not up to me. It's all about Haslam. Manziel is obviously Haslam's boy.

I just don't want Manziel to be a question mark for Haslam. I want to move on from him and get our future QB, and I'm nervous about Haslam putting his two cents in and making executive calls again to override the GM.
 
Phills14 said:
At this point, nothing about Manziel is unknown.
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Even for Haslam? It's obvious that Haslam wants to see Manziel on the field. There's even been a report stating that the front office is split because of Manziel.

All my thinking is Haslam fucking up again putting his two cents in. I just want this Manziel shit to be over with so we can move on to Goff.
 
MalTalm said:
At the end of the day, Farmer and Pettine are both likely to be polishing their resumes for the 2016 season. What HC or GM is taking this job with Manziel on the roster? No one coming in is going to want to have their career tied to such a volatile piece.

The next regime to take over will likely torch everything Farmer has touched, he has done such a poor job of building a roster it's hard to swallow. Our personnel was better under Chud than it is with Pettine right now, and we were one of the youngest teams in the NFL. There is no excuse for that.
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I feel like no player has responded well to this coaching staff. I would keep all the young players around and see if a different staff and approach can get something out of these 1st round picks. I would let the new staff decide on who to keep and who to trade after they bring the guys into camp. Hopefully at least one of farmers picks will become productive with a staff that can develop them. I don't have faith that Gilbert or Johnny would be one of them but I wouldn't do them any favors either by releasing them early and letting them catch on with another team.
 
And we thought the Browns couldn't be consistent at anything...
 
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