Cleveland Indians Offseason News, Notes, and Rumors

[bigjmac0815]

Other then BJ Upton, who are our realistic options at Center Field?

And first base for that matter.

Centerfield-Coco Crisp

1B-Michael Cuddyer

 

[MoFlo]

Other then BJ Upton, who are our realistic options at Center Field?

And first base for that matter.

I do think Grady is still certainly an option, with an incentive laden deal based on a combination of games played/plate appearances & stats, maybe even attendence.

I don't think they look specifically at a CF, per se. As boobie pointed out, Brantley is an option to move there. I think they'll go hard after a corner OF bat. Cuddyer would be a guy who would provide more flexibility, being able to play both 1B & RF.

I have a feeling they'll make a legit run at Kubel as well.

Also, Grady in RF?! WTF?! Boston has to realize that he's just not a RF, in the least bit. Hell, the only negative about his D throughout his entire career is his lack of arm strength.

 

[Steve_424]

I do think Grady is still certainly an option, with an incentive laden deal based on a combination of games played/plate appearances & stats, maybe even attendence.

I don't think they look specifically at a CF, per se. As boobie pointed out, Brantley is an option to move there. I think they'll go hard after a corner OF bat. Cuddyer would be a guy who would provide more flexibility, being able to play both 1B & RF.

I have a feeling they'll make a legit run at Kubel as well.

Also, Grady in RF?! WTF?! Boston has to realize that he's just not a RF, in the least bit. Hell, the only negative about his D throughout his entire career is his lack of arm strength.

I keep going back to Kubel and Carlos Pena, but both are left-handed. Looking at the players locked into the 2012 lineup, I'm not sure they can afford to have two more lefties.

L-Brantley
L-Choo
L-Hafner
L-Kipnis
L-Chisenhall
S-Cabrera
S-Santana

Which means the Indians' shopping list could look like this:

Michael Cuddyer
Josh Willingham
B.J. Upton
Derrek Lee
Ryan Doumit

 

[Steve_424]

Upton/Lee wouldn't be bad...improves the defense quite a bit as well.

R-CF-Upton
L-2B-Kipnis
S-SS-Cabrera
L-RF-Choo
L-DH-Hafner
S-C-Santana
R-1B-Lee
L-3B-Chisenhall
L-LF-Brantley

 

[elcheato]

Was listening to Keith Law on KNR, talking specifically about the Indians:

For what Lowe is, thought it was a good pick up. There's some value in a guy who you know will make 30+ starts with 180+ innings in the back of your rotation, even if he doesn't pitch that well. Said usually those kind of pitchers get multi year deals in free agency, and Indians only have him on a one year deal at 5 mill.

Said that they should not go after Cuddyer and Willingham if it takes a 3 year deal to get them, should target players like Kubel, who they could get on a one year deal, who have upside. Also said if the Indians were to sign Willingham, he would probably play first. Said he is below average defensively in the outfield.

Says he was surprised the Indians picked up Fausto's option, pretty much said he has never been a fan, and he doesn't expect him to regain form.

Thinks Carlos Pena back in the AL would be a disaster.

Said he doesn't think the Tigers are nearly as good as their record from last year, thinks if the Indians get lucky on a few guys they could compete in the division next year.

 

[Gimme Some Mo]

I'm pissed I even have to ask this question again, but did you even read my post?

Am I upset because people disagree? No, that's their opinion & choice. I don't give a shit.

But if you're going to disagree, use more than "he's 38 years old", "he sucks", or "what a shock, the Indians get another over the hill veteran to plug in the hole". Plenty of 38 year olds have pitched successfully, "he sucks" doesn't tell me shit, and all the other shit is people bashing the front office for no reason, just to bitch.

If you hate the trade & want to debate about it, fucking bring it!! Don't give me this "well, um... the Indians suck, Derek Lowe sucks, he's 38" bullshit. Fucking debate like you actually know what's going on. Think about why they would make the deal, look at everything involved, then form an opinion. Don't just spew bullshit because the guy is 38.

And your post goes for all you other guys that don't like the deal too. I agree with the trade, so that makes me an "apologist"?! Really?

Really





















*Awaits 10 page response whining about other people's opinion* :chuckles:

 

[The Oi]

Can someone clarify for sgm that I did not personally post a picture of shit? But rather clarified that not all of my posts are intended to be harmless?

Thanks,

Management

PS And for the record...I have no problem with the move. I think it makes perfect sense. As mentioned before, I just think that a lot of the Indians moves look funny on paper and I enjoy imagining forehead veins popping over "criticizing" the moves.

Dedicated Indians fans on this board are SEVERELY more sensitive than Browns and Cavs fans. Maybe it's a generational thing or something? I see minimal joking in the Indians threads and just a ton of panicking about ridiculous opinions that apathetic Indians fans claim to have. The Indians threads have this very serious, no nonsense tone to them and everyone seems defensive.

 

[Gunther]

Can someone clarify for sgm that I did not personally post a picture of shit? But rather clarified that not all of my posts are intended to be harmless?

Thanks,

Management

PS And for the record...I have no problem with the move. I think it makes perfect sense. As mentioned before, I just think that a lot of the Indians moves look funny on paper and I enjoy imagining forehead veins popping over "criticizing" the moves.

Dedicated Indians fans on this board are SEVERELY more sensitive than Browns and Cavs fans. Maybe it's a generational thing or something? I see minimal joking in the Indians threads and just a ton of panicking about ridiculous opinions that apathetic Indians fans claim to have. The Indians threads have this very serious, no nonsense tone to them and everyone seems defensive.

 

[Gimme Some Mo]

Can someone clarify for sgm that I did not personally post a picture of shit? But rather clarified that not all of my posts are intended to be harmless?

Thanks,

Management

PS And for the record...I have no problem with the move. I think it makes perfect sense. As mentioned before, I just think that a lot of the Indians moves look funny on paper and I enjoy imagining forehead veins popping over "criticizing" the moves.

Dedicated Indians fans on this board are SEVERELY more sensitive than Browns and Cavs fans. Maybe it's a generational thing or something? I see minimal joking in the Indians threads and just a ton of panicking about ridiculous opinions that apathetic Indians fans claim to have. The Indians threads have this very serious, no nonsense tone to them and everyone seems defensive.

That is because b00bie spends 95% of his life searching the Indians forum for ANY post that knocks/disagrees with anything the Indians do.

 

[AZ_]

Can someone clarify for sgm that I did not personally post a picture of shit? But rather clarified that not all of my posts are intended to be harmless?

Thanks,

Management

PS And for the record...I have no problem with the move. I think it makes perfect sense. As mentioned before, I just think that a lot of the Indians moves look funny on paper and I enjoy imagining forehead veins popping over "criticizing" the moves.

Dedicated Indians fans on this board are SEVERELY more sensitive than Browns and Cavs fans. Maybe it's a generational thing or something? I see minimal joking in the Indians threads and just a ton of panicking about ridiculous opinions that apathetic Indians fans claim to have. The Indians threads have this very serious, no nonsense tone to them and everyone seems defensive.

It has more to do with baseball being a different structure and the average Joe Schmo not really understanding it.

 

[The Oi]

Thanks Gunther. You were always my favorite.

It has more to do with baseball being a different structure and the average Joe Schmo not really understanding it.

Yeah. I think more of us get it than we let on.

I have a reasonable grasp of advanced metrics and how they isolate the performance of a player from the many variables that a team can create. I also understand the small market thing and why the Indians and more than half the league are always behind the eight ball in terms of spending and attracting FA's. I also recognize that the owners aren't bad at all and are limited by what has become an unfortunate reality for small market teams like Cleveland. I get why the Lowe trade makes sense. I also get the lighting in the bottle situation of the mid-90's to early 2000's and why it's highly unlikely to happen again.

But frankly...I find it far more entertaining to rip on the Indians mediocrity than to engage in the same discussion over and over about a team that isn't playing a game again until April.

I've become a pretty crappy fan for all of my teams, honestly. But it doesn't mean I don't understand why they suck. I like to think that others are of a similar mindset to that described above.

In any case...

 

[Damage]

How anyone can be upset with the Lowe move is beyond me. He faded last year, that's for sure, but so did the entire Braves team. We're only assuming $5 million of his deal and the FA market for pitchers is pretty bare. This buys us a year to deal with the Carrasco injury.

Look at some of his advanced statistics and he wasn't all that bad. Look, He's a #5 starter on this team and he brings some veteran pressence. It was an extremely creative move and it's moves like that (thinking outside of the box) that push mid level market teams above the pack. Is he the best pitcher out there? Certainly not. But it's an extremely low risk, mid-high reward move.

 

[AZ_]

Thanks Gunther. You were always my favorite.



Yeah. I think more of us get it than we let on.

I have a reasonable grasp of advanced metrics and how they isolate the performance of a player from the many variables that a team can create. I also understand the small market thing and why the Indians and more than half the league are always behind the eight ball in terms of spending and attracting FA's. I also recognize that the owners aren't bad at all and are limited by what has become an unfortunate reality for small market teams like Cleveland. I get why the Lowe trade makes sense. I also get the lighting in the bottle situation of the mid-90's to early 2000's and why it's highly unlikely to happen again.

But frankly...I find it far more entertaining to rip on the Indians mediocrity than to engage in the same discussion over and over about a team that isn't playing a game again until April.

I've become a pretty crappy fan for all of my teams, honestly. But it doesn't mean I don't understand why they suck. I like to think that others are of a similar mindset to that described above.

In any case...

I'd like to think you're an intelligent fan, I really do.

I can almost look past all the poop video's.

But even if it were true, you're one of the few people who is "more enlightened then they let on"

While we all know you're a 15 year old socially, most of the others just don't seem to get it whatsoever.

 

[MoFlo]

Really





















*Awaits 10 page response whining about other people's opinion* :chuckles:

Yep, cause I was clearly whining about other people's opinions this entire time.

Fact is, I get sick of debating with fans whose entire basis for their argument is "he sucks" or "he's old", even after myself & numerous other posters have delivered relevant facts to back up our argument.

Not sure why I expect anything to change at this point.

I'll wait while you think of what you want to write to get the last word, cause it's pretty clear you have to have it.

 

[MoFlo]

I keep going back to Kubel and Carlos Pena, but both are left-handed. Looking at the players locked into the 2012 lineup, I'm not sure they can afford to have two more lefties.

L-Brantley
L-Choo
L-Hafner
L-Kipnis
L-Chisenhall
S-Cabrera
S-Santana

Which means the Indians' shopping list could look like this:

Michael Cuddyer
Josh Willingham
B.J. Upton
Derrek Lee
Ryan Doumit

I was thinking about that when I mentioned Kubel as well, but I keep going back to what Manny Acta said, I believe it was right after the season, about having another bat & that he doesn't care if he's right handed or left handed.

Granted, you want a good balance, but I think any hitter that can hit will be welcome at this point. Not to say a LH hitter will be our 1st choice, but as was mentioned, I agree with Law when he says we're better off going after somebody like Kubel, who could possibly come here on a 1 year deal (where he'd have that incentive to play well, playing for another contract) as opposed to a Willingham, who is looking for at least a 3 year deal.

I do think option #1 will be Cuddyer, as he provides the RH pop & some additional flexibility, but after that, I think it's all up in the air.