Cliff Lee is the best pitcher in the game

[MoFlo]

The Indians just gave the Phillies another pennant for table scraps. Hope they're happy.

I know you like to be a 'realist' as you call it..

But do we seriously need comments like this?

You really can't honestly say you know how these prospects are gonna turn out already

Do I know they'll be all-stars or even good? Absolutely not

But I also don't go around saying that they're will be..

Fact is that we don't know until they've proven one way or another in the majors..

Saying we got table scraps for him at this point is absolutely ridiculous

 

[Chris]

I know you like to be a 'realist' as you call it..

But do we seriously need comments like this?

You really can't honestly say you know how these prospects are gonna turn out already

Do I know they'll be all-stars or even good? Absolutely not

But I also don't go around saying that they're will be..

Fact is that we don't know until they've proven one way or another in the majors..

Saying we got table scraps for him at this point is absolutely ridiculous

Hey, I don't think it was a fair trade and a lot of people agree with me. Say you "won't know for another 3 years" but isn't that the point? The fact that the guys who could potentially be "impact" players are so far away from the big leagues (edit: please don't lecture me on the venerable Lou Marson) that we won't know for years kind of speaks for itself. Players at that level, even if they are highly touted, still have a long ways to go and it's not like the dudes we got were top prospects.

Just let it go, I have my opinions on the trade and you have yours.

 

[AZ_]

Players at that level, even if they are highly touted, still have a long ways to go and it's not like the dudes we got were top prospects.

Just let it go, I have my opinions on the trade and you have yours.

Baseball America disagree's, and some people had Jason Knapp rated higher than Kyle Drabek.

But you wouldn't want to listen to that...

 

[Chris]

Baseball America disagree's, and some people had Jason Knapp rated higher than Kyle Drabek.

But you wouldn't want to listen to that...

I don't think being a Top 100 prospect in the past suddenly means you're a Top 100 prospect for life/until you get to the big leagues. I'm pretty sure these were preseason rankings. It looks like the Indians went by preseason rankings when they asked for these guys.

 

[AZ_]

Considering they took Knapp, I would say quite the opposite.

I'm sure you're going to come back with the "ohhh he had a 4.01 ERA he's not that good" when you don't even bother to realize half of his runs came in THREE starts.

Aside from those three starts:

76.2 IP
48 H
19 ER
30 BB
103 K

You can sort their top four prospects anyway you want them. Brown, Taylor, Drabek, Knapp....it doesn't really matter.

Keep in mind Knapp is still 18 years old for the next week and a half pitching about 2 years under the average age for the Sally League.

I'll take the upside and potential, especially when the current crop of outfielder in this system immediately downgrades the value of a guy like Taylor or Brown.

 

[AMC]

I think Johan would be the best on a good team, with run support and a Bullpen

 

[PIP]

I think Johan would be the best on a good team, with run support and a Bullpen

Johan is a fantastic pitcher, but he's actually lost a lot on his fastball, and that has affected his devastaing circle changeup tremendously..

When he was with the Twins he was basically a two pitch pitcher, and was using that fastball and changeup (he was the best at it)... I watched the game the other night, and you can see where he's starting to transition to a pitcher with more pitches to compensate for his losses.. Kinda like Pedro did in the beginning of '02 and '03... He's using a cutter now and is mixing in sliders more than he ever did..

 

[Lee]

Anyone named Lee is a stud in my opinion....want evidence?

Cliff Lee....Bruce Lee....Lee Majors .....Me...enough said. :chuckles:

 

[elcheato]

I like Lee but he is not the best... You put Felix, Greinke, Halladay, etc.. in the NL, and they're pitching just as good

 

[Chris]

People are still talking about Greinke? That's hypothetical, you don't know for a fact that they would be. We do know that Cliff Lee is though.

 

[elcheato]

People are still talking about Greinke? That's hypothetical, you don't know for a fact that they would be. We do know that Cliff Lee is though.

Yea people are still talking about Greinke.. He leads the AL in ERA, complete games and 2nd in strike outs..

 

[Chris]

Seems like everyone forgot about him, I was surprised to hear you mention him. He was everyone's hot pick for Cy Young 2 months ago and now ESPN stopped jockeying his name around.

edit: Dont forget though, Greinke plays in a cookies n cream division so nobody will give him his due credit just like Cliff Lee last year. Apparently.

 

[Otsego Mar]

Lee also had 2 hits yesterday, scoring a run. Studly.

 

[elcheato]

Greinke has always been pretty good, but he put it together this year and has become an elite pitcher, and he won't get all the credit he deserves until the Royals are good, which may not happen while he's there.

 

[Chris]

Greinke has always been pretty good, but he put it together this year and has become an elite pitcher, and he won't get all the credit he deserves until the Royals are good, which may not happen while he's there.

I agree and it's sad. I've defended Greinke all year from people saying he's really not that great, and the funniest part was it was people saying he won't keep it up all year and I argued with the SAME people LAST year about Cliff Lee.