Connecticut School Shooting

[bcort]

Clackamas Mall Shooter Was Confonted By Concealed Carrier (Oregon)
Link: http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon/183609901.html

On Tuesday night 22-year-old Nick Meli went to the Clackamas Town Center mall with his friend Casey and their friend Ashley's baby boy***. They were walking through the mall when a masked man, now known to be Jacob Tyler Roberts, opened fire.

Nick's reaction? "I heard three shots and turned and looked at Casey and said, 'are you serious?'". Nick told Casey to get down with the baby and positioned himself behind a pillar in the mall. Oh yeah, Nick is a licensed concealed carrier in Oregon.

When Nick looked around the pillar he drew his concealed handgun. When the shooting suddenly stopped, what we now know was Roberts weapon jamming Nick saw him trying to clear the malfunction, "He was working on his rifle, he kept pulling the charging handle and hitting the side", Nick told reporters.

Roberts and Nick clearly saw each other and as Nick lined up the shot, he knew there was a problem, "As I was going down to pull I saw someone in the back of the (shooter) move and I knew if I fired and missed I could hit them".

Unable to safely take the shot without risking innocents (Colonel Jeff Cooper's Firearms Rule #4 for those counting), Nick took cover inside a store. He stands by his choice not to pull the trigger, saying "I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him, I know after he saw me I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself".

That's right... even though Nick never fired a shot, Roberts knew that he was no longer the only armed man in the mall. Roberts retreated into the stairwell, cleared his weapons malfunction and committed suicide rather than continue attacking and killing any more innocent civilians.

There is a famous saying that the only thing that can stop a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun. On Tuesday night, Nick Meli was that good man with a gun. Even without the shot being fired, he managed to change Jacob Roberts plan and help to save lives.

Let me just say thank you Nick.

If you're interested in other stories of ordinary citizens using their firearms to defend themselves, their families, and their friends, take a look at our November 2012 Defensive Gun Use Report.

http://easybakegunclub.com/news/1943/Clackamas-Mall-Shooter-Was-Confonted-By-Concealed-.html

 

[Jack Brickman]

1. So you are relying on blind luck really. If someone invades your home and threatens your life your best bet is to wait on the police to arrive, well again good luck with that, I hope you are fortunate should something ever happen. Maybe you'll reply with another smart answer like you'll attack him with one of your steak knives, or any innumerable things you could fashion into a weapon, or maybe you'll get away on a slip and slide. Don't derail me with another crazy off topic answer.

2. That's funny smartass

3. Please tell me about these specific loopholes that you speak of. I want hard evidence of a loophole that's posing to be a huge problem in people attaining weapons easily. You have none, so don't bullshit me or RCF readers. Your ideas still can't solve the unique problem of a normal guy, like Adam Lanza, with no criminal record deciding that he's going to go postal and take out mass people. These people are untraceable. Any normal, average, quiet citizen can decide to go postal at any given moment.

And for your information this shooter tried to go and purchase guns legally in a store, but was denied at the counter because he wasn't of age. They put your information through a complete BCI background check before you are cleared to make your gun purchase in a store. So what else do you want them to do Jack? You have this fantasy idea of lets just make it harder, but you still can never stop a problem like this where a normal person snaps and decides to arm himself. Don't go blaming Wal Mart because that's where the guy got his weapons. People can attain weapons in a variety of ways illegally or legally, so stop with the fantasy talk of more regulations and difficulty to acquire arms. You are going nowhere but running around in circles here. You're the guy that wants progress in America.

4. Again, WEAK WEAK argument. Childish really, guns have also saved innocent people's lives too! You haven't acknowledged that fact at all anywhere in your argument. We should simply be indifferent to guns because they are not going anywhere, they are in society to stay, and the faster you can recognize this fact, the sooner you will start to make honest progress towards real solutions.

I wish we could progress as a society too Jack , I really do, but it's not that easy, and there's no direct answer. There's arguably more random acts of violence in the world now than ever before, so everyone should make their personal safety of the utmost importance, under the principles of liberty, you should be able to protect yourself however you see fit (guns, pepper spray, heavy bank vault doors on your house whatever suits your personal needs....)

There will never be a time where Americans can't go to a store and acquire weapons to protect themselves. (barring they clear a BCI background check and possess no criminal record.) It's not that I'm hanging onto how things have always been.

It's how it ought to be!

That's the spirit under which this country has founded. Your acting like America is a better place now, I'm saying there's more random violence than ever. We haven't exactly progressed to a better time where things are safer and the constitutional spirit no longer applies.

1. Not really. I lock my doors at night and I live in a relatively secure apartment complex. I also have two big dogs (a German Shepherd and a Boxer), which are a much better deterrent against potential burglars than anything else. Most people would rather pick a safer target than the place with two big dogs.

2. I wasn't being a smartass. A domesticated animal is entirely different from a wild animal. If you don't believe me, look it up. There's a reason we trust certain domesticated animals to lead blind people around, aid in search and rescue operations, provide assistance to military and police, or sniff out bombs and drugs, among other things. It's the same reason why I sleep in the same room as a dog without fear but would never quite trust a wolf, even one that I raised from a pup.

3. Well, for one, there's the gun show loophole. It's pretty easy for the average person to go to a gun show and buy guns without any ID or background checks. Someone linked to an article earlier all about this, and about how the state legislature voted against closing said loopholes twice. I think that was in West Virginia. You can search the thread for that article if you want to read it.

4. So because guns have saved lives, we should ignore all the lives they've taken? Again, I'm not arguing that guns should be banned, but rather that this country really needs to take steps toward limiting who can get them.

The fact is there are no easy answers, and not every tragedy will be averted by limiting access to guns. However, isn't it worth it if it stops even one? Someone mentioned the rules that Japan uses for buying guns, and I think those are fantastic and something that should absolutely be adopted here.

 

[Otsego Mar]

The real issue is how many families actually need a gun to protect them. I don't own a gun, and it has nothing to do with my ideals. I just don't feel I need one. I don't live in constant fear of having my apartment broken into. I don't live in constant fear of being mugged when I walk around outside. And it's not that I live in some idyllic small town paradise with no crime. I live just outside of downtown Charlotte in a relatively urban neighborhood.

You want to protect yourself from home invasions? A big dog is a much better deterrent than a gun because potential burglars can see the threat of the dog and will probably opt to break into a different residence. You want safety when you're taking a walk at night? You're much less likely to get mugged walking a German Shepherd than you are carrying a concealed weapon that the mugger(s) can't see.

Saying you aren't living in fear does not change the fact that those things you mentioned can and do happen. All you are doing is arguing with yourself. All you are doing is validating your idea of not owning a weapon yourself. And that's fine.

I'm sorry, but it's very unlikely. 2 bullets kill both you and your dog. I'm only trying to present you with scenarios you seem to think would never happen (and I hope they never do). Do I think a lone criminal would rather mug someone without a dog if they weren't using a weapon? Sure....so hats off to you there.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Saying you aren't living in fear does not change the fact that those things you mentioned can and do happen. All you are doing is arguing with yourself. All you are doing is validating your idea of not owning a weapon yourself. And that's fine.

I'm sorry, but it's very unlikely. 2 bullets kill both you and your dog. I'm only trying to present you with scenarios you seem to think would never happen (and I hope they never do). Do I think a lone criminal would rather mug someone without a dog if they weren't using a weapon? Sure....so hats off to you there.

Yeah, two bullets would kill both me and my dog. But if someone is going to simply come up and gun you down, you're fucked regardless. Do you really think your concealed weapon is going to save you if someone walks up with a gun drawn? The second you move your hand to draw your concealed gun, they're going to shoot you.

The thing is, most muggers aren't looking to murder people. They're looking to rob them. And I'm much less likely to get robbed walking with a 90 pound German dog than you are with a concealed weapon that the robber can't see.

 

[Otsego Mar]

Yeah, two bullets would kill both me and my dog. But if someone is going to simply come up and gun you down, you're fucked regardless. Do you really think your concealed weapon is going to save you if someone walks up with a gun drawn? The second you move your hand to draw your concealed gun, they're going to shoot you.

The thing is, most muggers aren't looking to murder people. They're looking to rob them. And I'm much less likely to get robbed walking with a 90 pound German dog than you are with a concealed weapon that the robber can't see.

I'll take my chances with a gun, rather than without. That is all.

Also, I don't care to get into the mind of the criminal. If a criminal is desperate enough to rob someone with a gun, they are desperate enough to use it, and I certainly am not letting my life lie in the hands of some asshole.

 

[Tlyons]

The world isn't going to get much safer with more people(even trained ones) carrying guns. There is no way to quantify the effects of conceal/carry because there are too many variables to consider with arrest rates and police strategy. Hell they still debate the crime drop in the 90s as to what really brought it down. Was it community policing/police strategy, or tougher sentencing, or the ending of the crack epidemic, or gasp... Effects of abortion. Any stat that is out is absurdly premature and probably being used for political purposes.

 

[Rookie]

Connecticut church near shooting site evacuated after bomb threat
NEWTOWN, Connecticut (Reuters) - A Roman Catholic church in Newtown, Connecticut was evacuated on Sunday after a bomb threat was reported by officials during services at the church, which is roughly a mile from the site of Friday's school shooting where 20 children were killed.

State troopers, police and ambulances were on the scene at St. Rose of Lima Catholic church, according to a Reuters eyewitness.

http://news.yahoo.com/connecticut-church-near-shooting-evacuated-bomb-threat-180742511.html

Are you kidding me? This is just crazy.

 

[Cratylus]

All these call-in bomb threats are getting out of hand. It's time for the government to get involved. I support an immediate ban on telephone ownership. That way there would be no more call-in bomb threats.

 

[Tlyons]

All these call-in bomb threats are getting out of hand. It's time for the government to get involved. I support an immediate ban on telephone ownership. That way there would be no more call-in bomb threats.

I think we more than get the point you and others are trying to make.

But seriously, there is maybe one person talking about a gun ban.

They just shut down a school outside of Fort Hood for an entire week because of bomb threats.


http://m.kdhnews.com/news/after-bom...cle_32289694-44e3-11e2-b7ca-001a4bcf6878.html

 

[Otsego Mar]

Keep letting the fear consume you, and you slowly start to go crazy.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Keep letting the fear consume you, and you slowly start to go crazy.

Says the guy who has to carry a pistol around in order to feel safe.

 

[Otsego Mar]

Says the guy who has to carry a pistol around in order to feel safe.

Indeed. Says the guy who is afraid of a handgun. I'm much more fearful of my fellow man than I am of a handgun.

And please....I carry a pistol to feel safer. Feel free to continue your weak, generalizing attacks on my character. Anything I can do to help

 

[Jack Brickman]

Indeed. Says the guy who is afraid of a handgun. I'm much more fearful of my fellow man than I am of a handgun.

And please....I carry a pistol to feel safer. Feel free to continue your weak, generalizing attacks on my character. I am here to help.

Since when am I afraid of a handgun? I've fired them before. Been to the gun range several times with co-workers (that sort of thing is big down here in the South). I simply don't feel the need to own one, and I certainly don't feel the need to carry one around with me everywhere I go.

I'd argue that you are the one that's afraid of guns seeing as you're also the one who feels the need to constantly carry them around in order to feel safe from them.

 

[Otsego Mar]

Since when am I afraid of a handgun? I've fired them before. Been to the gun range several times with co-workers (that sort of thing is big down here in the South). I simply don't feel the need to own one, and I certainly don't feel the need to carry one around with me everywhere I go.

I'd argue that you are the one that's afraid of guns seeing as you're also the one who feels the need to constantly carry them around in order to feel safe from them.

No...I don't walk into a room full of guns laying on a table and start hyperventilating. I do, however, fear my fellow man. Jack, I'm sorry, but your argument holds no validity.

 

[Jack Brickman]

No...I don't walk into a room full of guns laying on a table and start hyperventilating. I do, however, fear my fellow man. Jack, I'm sorry, but your arguments hold no validity.

You made a comment about fear driving people crazy. I argued that you're the one living in fear. You agreed. I win?