Connecticut School Shooting

[Otsego Mar]

You made a comment about fear driving people crazy. I argued that you're the one living in fear. You agreed. I win?

Sure.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Sure.

Then it's settled.

 

[Frank Reynolds]

Then it's settled.

Ha!

Jack you will have zero chance to defend yourself. I would actually think BigMar should feel safer than you, because he actually has the tools to defend himself? Right? Are you bringing fists to a gunfight? Are you going to just run away, and hope that he can't shoot you down as you're running away? I kinda think that's what your relying on for your safety, luck! because it hasn't happened to you yet.

You are just kind of saying that you like your odds, and that's your prerogative. You might not think that crazy shit can happen, but time and time again it does. This killer shot his way into the school, I could pick my way into your home with a set of lock picks, or I could blast the door down or sneak in through a window somehow. Don't go saying that Mar is paranoid about his safety, think the opposite, like maybe you don't have all of your bases covered.


I hope you are never caught in a tight situation like this, because if you are..... I don't really like your odds. I would want my odds to survive to be as high as i can legally make them.

God help the liberal retards that think the solution to all of this is "yea, let's just make guns harder to get at gun shows, or Bass Pro Shops"

Because if Big Mar wanted to snap, he could.... and no amount of school psychology, support groups or early interventions is going find someone hiding out there somewhere in the public. Your solutions are far fetched.

Your right, even if we could stop one it would be a bonus. I just don't think your solutions are stopping some dude who's on the brink from popping off heads if he chooses to go and find arms....just like how I illegally go and find weed every week. You are not stopping anyone. They could just steal guns from someone they knew, just like this school killer.

 

[Otsego Mar]

Ha!

Jack you will have zero chance to defend yourself. I would actually think BigMar should feel safer than you, because he actually has the tools to defend himself? Right? Are you bringing fists to a gunfight? Are you going to just run away, and hope that he can't shoot you down as you're running away? I kinda think that's what your relying on for your safety, luck! because it hasn't happened to you yet. You are just kind of saying you like your odds, and that's your prerogative. You might not think that crazy shit can happen, but time and time again it does. This killer shot his way into the school, I could pick my way into your home with a set of lock picks, or I could blast the door down or sneak in through a window somehow. Don't go saying that Mar is paranoid about his safety, think the opposite, like maybe you don't have all of your bases covered.


I hope you are never caught in a tight situation like this, because if you are..... I don't really like your odds. I would want my odds to survive to be as high as i can legally make them.

God help the liberal retards that think the solution to all of this is "yea, let's just make guns harder to get at gun shows, or Bass Pro Shops"

Because if Big Mar wanted to snap, he could.... and no amount of school psychology, support groups or early interventions is going to lessen the amount of heads these psycho's are popping off. Your solutions are far fetched.

Your right, even if we could stop one it would be a bonus. I just don't think your solutions are stopping some dude who's on the brink from popping off heads if he chooses to.

The fact that people put up signs that read NO GUNS ALLOWED and expect criminals to obey is simply asinine. I can't even believe it, really. People are clueless in this world.

The only people who obey the NO GUNS ALLOWED are people like me, who are EXPECTED to heed this message and not carry. You know what? That's fine...that's your right to say you don't want guns in your establishment. And it's my right to say you're a fucking idiot, I will no longer give my money to you since you don't afford me the opportunity to protect myself in your store. Unless you got it on lock-down, I no longer feel safe in your establishment.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Ha!

Jack you will have zero chance to defend yourself. I would actually think BigMar should feel safer than you, because he actually has the tools to defend himself? Right? Are you bringing fists to a gunfight? Are you going to just run away, and hope that he can't shoot you down as you're running away? I kinda think that's what your relying on for your safety, luck! because it hasn't happened to you yet. You are just kind of saying you like your odds, and that's your prerogative. You might not think that crazy shit can happen, but time and time again it does. This killer shot his way into the school, I could pick my way into your home with a set of lock picks, or I could blast the door down or sneak in through a window somehow. Don't go saying that Mar is paranoid about his safety, think the opposite, like maybe you don't have all of your bases covered.


I hope you are never caught in a tight situation like this, because if you are..... I don't really like your odds. I would want my odds to survive to be as high as i can legally make them.

God help the liberal retards that think the solution to all of this is "yea, let's just make guns harder to get at gun shows, or Bass Pro Shops"

Because if Big Mar wanted to snap, he could.... and no amount of school psychology, support groups or early interventions is going to lessen the amount of heads these psycho's are popping off. Your solutions are far fetched.

Your right, even if we could stop one it would be a bonus. I just don't think your solutions are stopping some dude who's on the brink from popping off heads if he chooses to.

1. And yet I feel perfectly safe and BigMar doesn't, as he has stated here numerous times.

2. I'm not actively trying to get into a gunfight. I just simply don't need to spend my life constantly worrying that I'm going to be robbed or mugged.

3. Yeah, I'm sure someone technically could break into my apartment, I just think there are much safer targets than mine. If someone really wants to try the odds and break into an apartment with a territorial German Shepherd who literally refuses to sleep anywhere without a clear view of the front door (I didn't train him to do this...it's just in his nature I guess), more power to them. Even if they manage to get past the dogs (which, as I mentioned, are about the best robbery deterrent out there), I still have other means of defending myself and, unlike a robber, I know my apartment by memory and can navigate through it in complete darkness.

4. Your scenario is improbable anyway. In your scenario, this person is breaking into my place specifically to kill me (or so it seems). The thing is, people rarely break into homes with the intent of killing the occupant. They break in to steal things, preferably when the occupant is not there. I don't generally worry about someone breaking into my place guns blazing because that basically never happens.

5. If you honestly don't believe stricter gun laws wouldn't at least prevent some shootings, you're being incredibly naive. The thing is, stricter gun laws wouldn't prevent seemingly stable people like BigMar from getting guns. It would, however, make it more difficult for less stable people to get them, and those are the people you want to prevent from obtaining guns.

Would it stop everyone? Of course not. As we've discussed, even banning guns outright wouldn't stop everyone from obtaining them. Making it harder to buy guns would stop some, though, and that's a start. It also wouldn't infringe on peoples' freedoms, which seems to be the big argument against new gun laws. You can still buy guns, it just takes a bit longer and gives you a few more hoops to jump through.

 

[cavman]

I remember when I turned 21 I went into a local pawn shop in painesville with 200 bucks and walked out 15 min later with a brand new Jennings 9mm. Thing was crap, and I had no clue what I was doing at the range and busted my thumb up pretty good shooting the thing. I took the gun back to the shop and said it just was not my thing. 3 months later the cops show up at my door and tell me a gun I had owned was used in a crime in arizona and they wanted to know who I sold it to, or gave it to.

After that I felt like shit, and never wanted to touch one again. I'm not trying to judge anyone for being pro gun, but if there were a few more hoops I had to jump through and some classes I would have had to take maybe I would still have the gun today and know how to use it and that crime would not have been committed with my gun.

 

[Otsego Mar]

1. And yet I feel perfectly safe and BigMar doesn't, as he has stated here numerous times.

False. I have stated I fear my fellow man and I am safer with a pistol. Reading comprehension. Also, I am EXTREMELY happy for you that you feel safe.

2. I'm not actively trying to get into a gunfight. I just simply don't need to spend my life constantly worrying that I'm going to be robbed or mugged.

Who the hell is? Maybe a deranged criminal. I don't spend my life constantly worrying that I'm going to be mugged. I am, however, probably more prepared for it. Again, you are only affirming your own reasoning - and again, that's fine.

3. Yeah, I'm sure someone technically could break into my apartment, I just think there are much safer targets than mine. If someone really wants to try the odds and break into an apartment with a territorial German Shepherd who literally refuses to sleep anywhere without a clear view of the front door (I didn't train him to do this...it's just in his nature I guess), more power to them. Even if they manage to get past the dogs (which, as I mentioned, are about the best robbery deterrent out there), I still have other means of defending myself and, unlike a robber, I know my apartment by memory and can navigate through it in complete darkness.

The first sentence....you immediately make an excuse. Stop with the excuses and imagine it's happening. Why should you imagine it happens?? Because it happens!!


5. If you honestly don't believe stricter gun laws wouldn't at least prevent some shootings, you're being incredibly naive. The thing is, stricter gun laws wouldn't prevent seemingly stable people like BigMar from getting guns. It would, however, make it more difficult for less stable people to get them, and those are the people you want to prevent from obtaining guns.

You would hope so, and I'm not going to say it might not reduce the overall statistics. But I keep going back to the fact that I want to protect myself....I'm in charge of my own life....exactly how stable does one need to be in order to do that?
.

x

 

[ohiorulez]

Don't know if this has been posted but... Scary tbh...
http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother

I Am Adam Lanza’s Mother
Liza Long

Three days before 20-year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year-old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.

"I can wear these pants," he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.

"They are navy blue," I told him. "Your school's dress code says black or khaki pants only."

"They told me I could wear these," he insisted. "You're a stupid bitch. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!"

"You can't wear whatever pants you want to," I said, my tone affable, reasonable. "And you definitely cannot call me a stupid bitch. You're grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school."

I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.
A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7- and 9-year-old siblings knew the safety plan—they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.

That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn't have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.

We still don't know what's wrong with Michael. Autism spectrum, ADHD, Oppositional Defiant or Intermittent Explosive Disorder have all been tossed around at various meetings with probation officers and social workers and counselors and teachers and school administrators. He's been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood-altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work.

At the start of seventh grade, Michael was accepted to an accelerated program for highly gifted math and science students. His IQ is off the charts. When he's in a good mood, he will gladly bend your ear on subjects ranging from Greek mythology to the differences between Einsteinian and Newtonian physics to Doctor Who. He's in a good mood most of the time. But when he's not, watch out. And it's impossible to predict what will set him off.

Several weeks into his new junior high school, Michael began exhibiting increasingly odd and threatening behaviors at school. We decided to transfer him to the district's most restrictive behavioral program, a contained school environment where children who can't function in normal classrooms can access their right to free public babysitting from 7:30 to 1:50 Monday through Friday until they turn 18.

The morning of the pants incident, Michael continued to argue with me on the drive. He would occasionally apologize and seem remorseful. Right before we turned into his school parking lot, he said, "Look, Mom, I'm really sorry. Can I have video games back today?"

"No way," I told him. "You cannot act the way you acted this morning and think you can get your electronic privileges back that quickly."

His face turned cold, and his eyes were full of calculated rage. "Then I'm going to kill myself," he said. "I'm going to jump out of this car right now and kill myself."

That was it. After the knife incident, I told him that if he ever said those words again, I would take him straight to the mental hospital, no ifs, ands, or buts. I did not respond, except to pull the car into the opposite lane, turning left instead of right.

"Where are you taking me?" he said, suddenly worried. "Where are we going?"

"You know where we are going," I replied.

"No! You can't do that to me! You're sending me to hell! You're sending me straight to hell!"

I pulled up in front of the hospital, frantically waving for one of the clinicians who happened to be standing outside. "Call the police," I said. "Hurry."

Michael was in a full-blown fit by then, screaming and hitting. I hugged him close so he couldn't escape from the car. He bit me several times and repeatedly jabbed his elbows into my rib cage. I'm still stronger than he is, but I won't be for much longer.

The police came quickly and carried my son screaming and kicking into the bowels of the hospital. I started to shake, and tears filled my eyes as I filled out the paperwork—"Were there any difficulties with… at what age did your child… were there any problems with.. has your child ever experienced.. does your child have…"

At least we have health insurance now. I recently accepted a position with a local college, giving up my freelance career because when you have a kid like this, you need benefits. You'll do anything for benefits. No individual insurance plan will cover this kind of thing.

For days, my son insisted that I was lying—that I made the whole thing up so that I could get rid of him. The first day, when I called to check up on him, he said, "I hate you. And I'm going to get my revenge as soon as I get out of here."

By day three, he was my calm, sweet boy again, all apologies and promises to get better. I've heard those promises for years. I don't believe them anymore.

On the intake form, under the question, "What are your expectations for treatment?" I wrote, "I need help."

And I do. This problem is too big for me to handle on my own. Sometimes there are no good options. So you just pray for grace and trust that in hindsight, it will all make sense.

I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza's mother. I am Dylan Klebold's and Eric Harris's mother. I am Jason Holmes's mother. I am Jared Loughner's mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho's mother. And these boys—and their mothers—need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it's easy to talk about guns. But it's time to talk about mental illness.

According to Mother Jones, since 1982, 61 mass murders involving firearms have occurred throughout the country. Of these, 43 of the killers were white males, and only one was a woman. Mother Jones focused on whether the killers obtained their guns legally (most did). But this highly visible sign of mental illness should lead us to consider how many people in the U.S. live in fear, like I do.

When I asked my son's social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. "If he's back in the system, they'll create a paper trail," he said. "That's the only way you're ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you've got charges."

I don't believe my son belongs in jail. The chaotic environment exacerbates Michael's sensitivity to sensory stimuli and doesn't deal with the underlying pathology. But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise—in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 percent) than in the non-incarcerated population.

With state-run treatment centers and hospitals shuttered, prison is now the last resort for the mentally ill—Rikers Island, the LA County Jail and Cook County Jail in Illinois housed the nation's largest treatment centers in 2011.

No one wants to send a 13-year-old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, "Something must be done."

I agree that something must be done. It's time for a meaningful, nation-wide conversation about mental health. That's the only way our nation can ever truly heal.

God help me. God help Michael. God help us all.

 

[Otsego Mar]

I don't believe my son belongs in jail.

How did this kid obtain the weapons? I want to know exactly how he got them. Obviously he had access to these freely. The mother honestly did not have any idea, or the thought, that her mentally challenged son might use them for evil?

I think I don't have the story 100% correct.

 

[gourimoko]

She's not Adam Lanza's mother... she's dead... this woman's problem is sad but I'm starting to sense this desire for big brother to come and save us from ourselves....

I've been hearing a lot about the need to roll back mental health reforms that prevent people from being institutionalized against their will...

Look, I feel for the families that lost loved ones, but I think this emotional rollercoaster may drive us over a cliff if we aren't careful..

I just don't see a legislative or government role here... we don't need government to solve every problem. Sometimes we need to just look at ourselves to see the problem.

 

[Otsego Mar]

She's not Adam Lanza's mother... she's dead... this woman's problem is sad but I'm starting to sense this desire for big brother to come and save us from ourselves....

I've been hearing a lot about the need to roll back mental health reforms that prevent people from being institutionalized against their will...

Look, I feel for the families that lost loved ones, but I think this emotional rollercoaster may drive us over a cliff if we aren't careful..

I just don't see a legislative or government role here... we don't need government to solve every problem. Sometimes we need to just look at ourselves to see the problem.

Now THAT'S real talk. Sometimes, people don't like what they see....so it's easier to do other things.

 

[Ruken]

The people saying teachers should carry clearly have never worked in a school environment. The amount of times a volitale situation occurs in a school where the presence of a gun could make it even more dangerous is way to high. Anytime myself or a teacher had to restrain a hid to break up a fight, that kid or his friend could reach for the the gun in the holster and the situation gets much worse. The issue is kids when they are angry or sad or any sort of emotion do not think rationally. That part of their brain has not fully developed yet so yes these kind of situations could happen.
As far as gun control laws, I will never own one personally but there is a gun culture in America and its not going anywhere. Why though do we not have a national database for licensing weapons? Why do we not do FBI background checks on guns? Why can we say limit to one purchase per month and do the Canadian rule where you must have two friends in good standing vouch for you to get a gun. Why not require background checks at gun shows (which they don't require). Why on earth do you need a 30 round magazine (the capacity used by this sicko). Yes a situation like this, a maniac will attempt no matter what but if you limit the type of weapons you can get then maybe you minimize the horrible loss. No I know gun rights people are going to say its my right to own whatever gun I want as I am not going to break that law or kill someone but I'm sorry being able to only buy a lesser capacity magazine or not be able to by a gun that is comparable to an m-16 rifle is a sacrifice you need to suck up for the greater safety of our society. Also you want to know where most guns are bought or the crimes are committed with, gun shows or a gun store owner we sells under the table. Make the serial numbers harder to scratch off register them all because then there is a greater chance to track down a shooter.

Guns rights people need to stop this stupid way of thinking we limit guns then eventually there will be no guns allowed that is a politcally suicide move that no one would attempt. We regulate our cars hell even toy guns and our food so yes firearms should be as well.

 

[Otsego Mar]

The people saying teachers should carry clearly have never worked in a school environment. The amount of times a volitale situation occurs in a school where the presence of a gun could make it even more dangerous is way to high. Anytime myself or a teacher had to restrain a hid to break up a fight, that kid or his friend could reach for the the gun in the holster and the situation gets much worse. The issue is kids when they are angry or sad or any sort of emotion do not think rationally. That part of their brain has not fully developed yet so yes these kind of situations could happen.
As far as gun control laws, I will never own one personally but there is a gun culture in America and its not going anywhere. Why though do we not have a national database for licensing weapons? Why do we not do FBI background checks on guns? Why can we say limit to one purchase per month and do the Canadian rule where you must have two friends in good standing vouch for you to get a gun. Why not require background checks at gun shows (which they don't require). Why on earth do you need a 30 round magazine (the capacity used by this sicko). Yes a situation like this, a maniac will attempt no matter what but if you limit the type of weapons you can get then maybe you minimize the horrible loss. No I know gun rights people are going to say its my right to own whatever gun I want as I am not going to break that law or kill someone but I'm sorry being able to only buy a lesser capacity magazine or not be able to by a gun that is comparable to an m-16 rifle is a sacrifice you need to suck up for the greater safety of our society. Also you want to know where most guns are bought or the crimes are committed with, gun shows or a gun store owner we sells under the table. Make the serial numbers harder to scratch off register them all because then there is a greater chance to track down a shooter.

Guns rights people need to stop this stupid way of thinking we limit guns then eventually there will be no guns allowed that is a politcally suicide move that no one would attempt. We regulate our cars hell even toy guns and our food so yes firearms should be as well.

Ugh. Thank you. Just, thank you.

For the record, I'm fully in favor of stricter gun laws to prevent children and those who are deemed mentally ill or previous violent criminals from obtaining them. I'm also very in favor of better education.

Also..we do FBI background checks on weapons purchases.....that doesn't stop people from obtaining them illegally.

 

[Ruken]

Link to the vigil for the victims

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nbcnews.com/50215047#50215047

 

[MikeOC33]

This story was just on "60 Minutes".

One of the things that struck me was the fear inducing paralysis that affected the secretary they interviewed. I'm not saying she should've tried to tackle/subdue an armed youthful male attacker, but she and another lady hid under their desk as the kid came into the office, then hid in a closet for 4 hours...long after the gunman was dead and the police etc where on the scene. The ordeal will no doubt plague her the rest of her life, and that is unfortunate... but she got out of it easy compared to others.

But along with her response to hide, it also made me wonder about Lanza's mother... who was a legal gunowner and apparently practiced regularily. How would she have responded if she was in the secretary's position, concealed carry, and aware a gunman was slaughtering children in her school. I dare say there is a good chance she might've gotten off a surprise shot or two of her own when he entered the office and possibly ended the masacre much sooner than it did. Then again, maybe she would not've been allowed to CC in a school... I dunno... its just the whole fight or flight thing and how the secretary responded.