Cuyahoga County Sin Tax

[caf]

Most spending inside a stadium is a substitute for other local recreational spending, such as movies and restaurants.

As for the bolded... what about the money I spend outside of the stadium?

As for the italicized... why the fuck would I go to Cleveland and deal with traffic for a fucking dinner and a movie? I have literally never gone to Cleveland for dinner and a movie, and I used to go to movies all the time. Cities thrive on offering events that bring in outside money. Bottom fucking line. Movies and dinner don't do that.

Concerts/Sports/Gambling is what attracts outside money. Events that people can not see in their home town. You take away the concert venues, sports, gambling, playhouse... and Cleveland dies overnight. People aren't going to travel to the city to go see a movie when there's a more convenient movie theater closer to their home.

 

[RonG]

Here is some food for thought...The cities own the stadium's and lease them to the teams... the team gets to sell the right to name the stadium owned by the city and collect revenue's. To me that should end immediately. That money should go to the city who finances those stadium's.

 

[Soda]

Here is some food for thought...The cities own the stadium's and lease them to the teams... the team gets to sell the right to name the stadium owned by the city and collect revenue's. To me that should end immediately. That money should go to the city who finances those stadium's.

You also have had a ticket price freeze for a decade. We forget that the inexpensive ticket is a benefit, rather than a birthright. To think the fan doesn't benefit from a naming rights deal is very short-sighted.

 

[Chardon]

As for the bolded... what about the money I spend outside of the stadium?

As for the italicized... why the fuck would I go to Cleveland and deal with traffic for a fucking dinner and a movie? I have literally never gone to Cleveland for dinner and a movie, and I used to go to movies all the time. Cities thrive on offering events that bring in outside money. Bottom fucking line. Movies and dinner don't do that.

Concerts/Sports/Gambling is what attracts outside money. Events that people can not see in their home town. You take away the concert venues, sports, gambling, playhouse... and Cleveland dies overnight. People aren't going to travel to the city to go see a movie when there's a more convenient movie theater closer to their home.

This.

I go to around 4 Browns game a year and a handful of Indians games. Usually we will go to dinner afterwards downtown. I would never go to din din in Cleveland if it weren't for sporting events or playhouse. I just went to Trans Siberian Orchestra at the Q, and we went to the casino afterwards.

Tax it on up. Same with Marijuana, tax the ever lasting shit out of it if it is legalized here.

 

[natedagg]

The issues I have are that:
1. There's no budget proposal of what the improvements will be, yet the tax plan is on the table. The citizens should be able to see what they are paying for before they pay for it.

2. The sin tax should stay, but that doesn't mean that the funds should be misappropriated. You can still keep the tax but not like how it's being invested, as long as the current legislation is shot down. The citizens should be able to vote on several different spending plans, and some of the $ can be earmarked for specific renovations. That's just not what's currently happening, and the OP shed some light on it.

 

[AZ_]

The county's sin tax is assessed at 4.5 cents per pack of cigarettes, 1.5 cents per 12-ounce bottle of beer, 6 cents per 750-milliliter bottle of wine, 32 cents per gallon of mixed beverages, 24 cents per gallon of cider and $3 per gallon of hard liquor.

I'd have a tough time getting so worked up over a tax which has such a little effect on the overall price of these items, honestly.

Furthermore, the city is already on the hook for these stadium improvements as outlined in their lease. You're not taking money out of the Indians pockets by voting this down, it's just driving CC further into debt.

 

[Pyro]

So you joined a sports website to say you don't give a shit if the sports teams that website covers leave?

 

[Fuggles]

 

[brownindian]

The govt taxes me for so much shit and i dont think im getting a fair share of what I'm being taxed for. The Browns and Cavs are something I enjoy and if a part of my money is going towards that then I dont mind cos i enjoy it esp when it is so negligible.

 

[DaNewCavs]

I'm on the border of Cuyahoga and Summit county. I don't even notice the difference in pricing between booze at the Cuyahoga bars and the booze at the Summit bars. I also think the price of beer at the G.E. that I go to in Summit county is the same as the G.E. in Cuyahoga County. There may be a difference in price, but it is negligible and doesn't prevent me from going to the CC bars vs. the Summit bars. I think the tax itself is overblown and the only debate should be how the money is being applied.

 

[southernflyer]

Let's have the sin tax sunset and create a new tax: the Vanity Tax! A countywide surcharge on manicures/pedicures at $1 each, eyebrow waxing $2, facials $3, botox $5 per injection and spa massages $10 per half hour unit or portion thereof. $5 surcharge for hair dye colors only found on peacocks and $10 per installation of hair weave. Those 20 year old idiots getting gray streaks in their hair, $20!

Leave those blue collar working stiffs alone to smoke and drink as they please, and stick it to the Strongsville chicks and Gold Coast boys (whichever way you swing)!

Yes, I am kidding. Any "niche" taxes are horrible, as are car rental taxes and hotel bed taxes. Voters support them because they are "tourist taxes", except when you want a weekend getaway with the wifey (or better yet, leave the wifey at home and take the girlfriend!). It pisses me off that ever time I rent a car at Hopkins, I am throwing away around $5 so I can take a shuttle across Brookpark Road to pick up my rental car. There is no way around it, even if I don't use the shuttle. Add all taxes/surcharges and fees, and the true rental price is on average $20 a day more than the quoted car price/day.

Don't get me started on the craptaxular RTA that cuts service, eliminates free transfers between busses and trains, and has been sucking the county dry of revenue for over 30 years for a temporary 1% tax that has never been able to sunset.

 

[CavsFinals2016]

The following reply is not supported by statistics, but just based on my perception:

Cleveland is in a different situation from other cities like Philly, NY, Chicago, San Francisco, etc. when it comes to sports teams. Those cities already have stable 24 hour metro centers that don't need sports teams to create vibrancy (of course, in many of these cities, the stadiums are far away). Cleveland obviously is different. Downtown is growing at a relatively rapid pace, and as a downtown resident, I believe its in large part due to "consumer agglomeration." In a nutshell, what that means is, there are local services, like restaurants, bars, theaters, and other personal activities. Whereas in the major U.S. cities, consumer agglomeration can exist without these teams, I think in Cleveland, our teams have had a definite impact on downtown's growth over the past decade. East 4th, our primary dining district, would definitely not be what it is today if it wasn't a stones throw from Gateway. East 4th, has had a ripple effect on the neighboring streets and now we boast one of the best culinary scenes in the country.

Our sports, restaurants and bars have encouraged more people to move downtown because there is more to do. People who wouldn't have considering moving to Cleveland, let alone downtown, are impressed by whats going on and have also moved down here. Because young talent now sees downtown as a viable alternative to suburban living, more business have moved downtown in the past few years, and now we're seeing Cleveland almost become a 24 hour city. Sure, big box items like our stadiums aren't a panacea, but in our situation, they've caused a ripple effect that may not have been reproduced by allocating sin tax funds elsewhere. I like the idea of making it cheaper to do business in Cleveland, but businesses won't come if there aren't workers that want to be here.

 

[Soda]

The issues I have are that:
1. There's no budget proposal of what the improvements will be, yet the tax plan is on the table. The citizens should be able to see what they are paying for before they pay for it.

2. The sin tax should stay, but that doesn't mean that the funds should be misappropriated. You can still keep the tax but not like how it's being invested, as long as the current legislation is shot down. The citizens should be able to vote on several different spending plans, and some of the $ can be earmarked for specific renovations. That's just not what's currently happening, and the OP shed some light on it.

No need to have the OP shed light because I addressed this.

If you read the ordinance for the original sin tax, you'll see that all of the money encumbered through tax is held in an account, separate from any other funds. The pro teams in City-owned structures (who manage the day-to-day operation of the facilities) have a dedicated list, available to the public, of allowable projects that the money can go towards. A couple of examples would be: building handicap ramps, fixing stairways, upgrading bathrooms, etc. Teams must present their projects and the vendors who will do them to Council (County and City, I believe) and it is up to those citizen reps to decide whether the projects should be funded by the sin tax or by the team. The funds never have nor ever will be "misappropriated". Also, if you actually look, you'll know what the money goes towards months in advance.

Edit: b00bie brings up a point that seems to be glossed over by sin tax detractors. These properties are the responsibility of the City of Cleveland and Cuyahoga County, so improvements the sin tax money is dedicated to are going to need to happen at some point. If you vote to shoot the sin tax down, you're essentially voting for the City/County to dig into their general fund (that's already scheduled for some kind of spending) to fund the essential renovations the sin tax was set-up to address. Wake up.

 

[Soda]

The following reply is not supported by statistics, but just based on my perception:

Cleveland is in a different situation from other cities like Philly, NY, Chicago, San Francisco, etc. when it comes to sports teams. Those cities already have stable 24 hour metro centers that don't need sports teams to create vibrancy (of course, in many of these cities, the stadiums are far away). Cleveland obviously is different. Downtown is growing at a relatively rapid pace, and as a downtown resident, I believe its in large part due to "consumer agglomeration." In a nutshell, what that means is, there are local services, like restaurants, bars, theaters, and other personal activities. Whereas in the major U.S. cities, consumer agglomeration can exist without these teams, I think in Cleveland, our teams have had a definite impact on downtown's growth over the past decade. East 4th, our primary dining district, would definitely not be what it is today if it wasn't a stones throw from Gateway. East 4th, has had a ripple effect on the neighboring streets and now we boast one of the best culinary scenes in the country.

Our sports, restaurants and bars have encouraged more people to move downtown because there is more to do. People who wouldn't have considering moving to Cleveland, let alone downtown, are impressed by whats going on and have also moved down here. Because young talent now sees downtown as a viable alternative to suburban living, more business have moved downtown in the past few years, and now we're seeing Cleveland almost become a 24 hour city. Sure, big box items like our stadiums aren't a panacea, but in our situation, they've caused a ripple effect that may not have been reproduced by allocating sin tax funds elsewhere. I like the idea of making it cheaper to do business in Cleveland, but businesses won't come if there aren't workers that want to be here.

I wish the County or City would work with the teams to present some kind of discounted rate for season tickets/tickets to their events. Kind of like incentive to make the pro sports events your main attraction for the population moving downtown. It's a nice City, but it isn't cheap to live downtown. With the exception of Constantino's and the new Heinens coming, shopping for essentials as a downtown resident is cumbersome.

 

[AZ_]

I'm on the border of Cuyahoga and Summit county. I don't even notice the difference in pricing between booze at the Cuyahoga bars and the booze at the Summit bars. I also think the price of beer at the G.E. that I go to in Summit county is the same as the G.E. in Cuyahoga County. There may be a difference in price, but it is negligible and doesn't prevent me from going to the CC bars vs. the Summit bars. I think the tax itself is overblown and the only debate should be how the money is being applied.

There is no evidence to suggest that this tax has any effect on the pricing of drinks at a bar, for what it's worth. Bars are still going to upcharge the shit out of booze whether you're in CC or you're not.